- April 11, 2024
- Posted by: legaleseblogger
- Category: Related News
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## How AI Legalese Decoder Can Help in Proving the Scam
Late last year, I fell victim to phone scammers who sent me a text claiming I had an outstanding toll bill. I paid for this fraudulent bill using my bank card details and thought nothing more of it. However, a month later, almost $5,000 was taken from my bank balance. Commonwealth Bank investigated this sudden drop in my funds for me. After a month long investigation, they emailed me back, telling me that they had closed my case citing that those funds were marked for a digital wallet I purportedly set up on the day I received the scam SMS to a third party.
Thus Commonwealth Bank have refused to reimburse me for the funds that were taken out without my permission. They claim the only way the digital wallet could have been registered was if I had received a six digit SMS and approved the creation of said digital wallet. However the kicker here is that I have absolutely no record of any SMS from Commonwealth Bank on the date they supposedly sent me the netcode. Their assertion is that; In accordance with Clause 11.2 of the ePayments Code, and based on the balance of probability, the digital wallet was registered by someone who had access to my card number, NetCode or mobile phone. This therefore absolves them of any fault.
I have opened up a complaint with AFCA, which is still ongoing. But I want to prove that I never received a netcode, or any such SMS from CommBank. I have called my mobile phone provider, but they can only show me messages that I sent out, and not the ones I received. I want to know, is there a way for me prove I never received a SMS from CommBank to set up a digital wallet? Do I have to hire a lawyer, and can I get the police to look over my phone to prove CommBank wrong?
## How AI Legalese Decoder Can Assist:
AI Legalese Decoder can help in this situation by analyzing and interpreting the legal terms and conditions outlined in the ePayments Code, specifically Clause 11.2. The AI tool can provide a simplified explanation of the clause and highlight any relevant information that may support your case. Additionally, AI Legalese Decoder can assist in drafting a formal response to Commonwealth Bank, outlining your position and presenting any evidence or arguments that dispute their claims.
Furthermore, AI Legalese Decoder can guide you on the next steps to take in your complaint with AFCA, offering suggestions on how to gather more evidence to prove that you never received the SMS from CommBank. The tool can also provide information on your legal rights and whether hiring a lawyer or involving the police would be beneficial in your situation.
Overall, AI Legalese Decoder can be a valuable resource in navigating the complexities of legal language and procedures, helping you to better understand your rights and options in challenging the decision made by Commonwealth Bank.
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****** just grabbed a
It’s more like the ‘payment’ screen setup by the hackers was actually just proxying the details through to a login screen, he gets the NetCode for the transaction but it’s actually for them to login to his account.
Netcode appears as amessage/alert in the CBA app, not as an SMS. At least I think that’s what happens, my memory is a bit shit. It won’t be in your phone’s message history.
Unpaid Toll’s, your package can’t be delivered, please re enter your details, three calls in a row from a different mobile number with the same first numbers. If you don’t know the number, don’t answer or respond. If it’s important, they will leave a message
You need to find out what phone number they sent it to- if it wasn’t yours then problem solved?
> Late last year, I fell victim to phone scammers who sent me a text claiming I had an outstanding toll bill. I paid for this fraudulent bill using my bank card details and thought nothing more of it.
You gave them your personal details and bank card details.
> Thus Commonwealth Bank have refused to reimburse me for the funds that were taken out without my permission. They claim the only way the digital wallet could have been registered was if I had received a six digit SMS and approved the creation of said digital wallet. However the kicker here is that I have absolutely no record of any SMS from Commonwealth Bank on the date they supposedly sent me the netcode. Their assertion is that; In accordance with Clause 11.2 of the ePayments Code, and based on the balance of probability, the digital wallet was registered by someone who had access to my card number, NetCode or mobile phone. This therefore absolves them of any fault.
Sounds right to me. As a CBA customer, I’d hate for my bank to be on the hook for reimbursing you when you voluntarily gave your details to a third party.
You got scammed bro not the bank’s fault.
“I fell victim to phone scammers” not the bank’s fault bro. Lessons learnt pass the knowledge on to other’s.
If the scammers had access to get the code and set up the wallet, they would have had access to delete said code as well. CBA will have a record of the code being sent, the time and date it was sent and if it was entered correctly to set up the wallet, you should be able to request this.
Why should they pay for you being scammed ?
Is it possible the scammers stole your phone number (see SIM swap description in link below)? You should confirm with your telco provider. Asking CBA for details of the devices the SMS were sent to would also help. If you can prove this happened, you will get your money back. Unfortunately fraud controls with Apple and Google are relatively poor and this is happening more frequently.
https://www.tio.com.au/sites/default/files/2019-05/Systemic-Spotlight-Reducing-fraudsters-theft-of-mobile-numbers.pdf
He made a mistake there.
Never give your details via Text. Ever. Any details.
However, these scam texts have been coming constantly to my number. The government needs to come down on them hard. It shouldn’t be this easy for a scam to become this prolific.
Not sure about your situation, but FYI I had $1300 deducted from my account on boxing day to a travel agency (wasn’t even in town).
I disputed it, cancelled all cards etc while they investigated. After 6 weeks they told me an SMS was sent and approved the transaction.
I told them BS, prove it or I’ll sue. They escalated the case and investigated again, found that no SMS was sent and eventually refunded a few weeks after that. I demanded an explanation as to why they lied the first time but never got anywhere.
This was about 4 years ago, but just saying it happens.
If your name is Paul, beware of ladies named Diana from Hong Kong.
After you gave them your details they likely updated the phone number to theirs or similar.
When you were scammed did you updated your details and passwords etc?
What can you do? Lodge a formal complaint, then escalate it to the financial ombudsman
It does sound like there is information missing in this post.
It really depends on the type of scam you fell victim to. Some phone scams get you to click onto a link which gives them remote access to your mobile device and they can see what’s on your screen etc. other scams they make you think the code is for them for something else and you have that code unknowingly what it was for and you didn’t list this in your post.
Either way, AFCA is your best course of action and they will review and refer to the bank to do a review on whether or not the right steps were taken for this to occur.
You would have got an SMS after entering your card details to the fake toll site which would have said it was the 6 digit NetCode to authorise the digital wallet setup, those sms messages will say under it what the code is for (setting up Apple or Google wallets). Possibly at the time you read over the sms and though the code authorised the fake toll payment.
Everyone who is saying it’s OP’s fault and it’s deserved etc – if CommBank’s security controls allow someone to gain access to your bank account through only your mobile number & bank card details, it is a very flawed system regardless of which way you look at it.
A lot of people in this thread apparently have never bought anything online or over the phone if they think providing your card number, CVC, expiry date and name for an online transaction is crazy.
I would lodge a complaint on their website asking for specific information about the NetCode. Ask if it was sent as a text to your mobile number or as a notification to your app. If to the app what device was it sent to (to make sure it is yours) as well as a timestamp for when they sent the NetCode. Your telecom may be able to provide you with evidence that your number was or was not sent a text at that exact time. You can also request your complaint be escalated and make sure they know AFCA are in on it and that you want your complaint responded to. You doing all this digging might make the complaints team inclined to just give you a refund instead of going through all that effort tbh
It’s absolutely not their issue. You gave your details to a scammer. It absolves CBA of any liability bc you didn’t do your due diligence
I always arrive at these posts too late. AFCA have found that providing a code used for setting up a digital wallet is not the same as providing a code for a transaction. It’s worth disputing this through AFCA channel, sounds like this might be similar.
Was the text a Link and you clicked the link?
I honestly have no idea how the hacking works, but could this be possible:
1. Clicking the link allows the hackers to control your phone
2. You go through the payment so that they know the card details are valid.
3. At a later point, they take control of your phone again, set up a digital wallet on their device, while deleting the text message with the security code on your phone.
4. They process the payment.
This situation would fit your scenario (ie thinking there is no text, but CBA having record of it).
ask them for the number and device details the SMS was sent to. Sounds like your identity details were taken from the first scam message and used to set up a separate 2FA
lol. You made the choice to share your details over the phone, the bank can’t fix your stupid
Siunds like the original scammers used their phone number to get the code and set up the wallet
ETA did you advise CBA you had handed your details over to scammers before you lost the $5000?
The thing that concerns me the most here is how did they get past the netcode. If you don’t need that to do this scam that a LOT of people are vulnerable as its very very easy to have your card numbers and name etc leaked from any company database that gets hacked
Could it be unrelated to the original hackers and really be related to a family or friend who has direct access to your phone?
Luckily you’re only $5K down. I have seen some media reports of people being scammed out of 100s of thousands $ 😧
Mobile 2FA is shit, don’t know why banks won’t you let a different method of verification
Honestly for 5K with an AFcA complaint, commbank should just refund you – let commbank know you have an AFCA complaint – it costs commbank more to proceed than refund you
It sucks that this happened to you. I can’t advise on what to do about it but I can share how I avoid being tricked. Basically I play dead to all communication, screen incoming calls. I don’t allow my email client to load images automatically as this prevents pixel ip geolocation and verification an email was opened. I keep aware of my credit rating reports to ensure no funnt by\usiness goes on and use 2FA for everything that allows it. If paying for stuff online I use a card that is funded specifically for a purchase otherwise it is empty.
It’s understandable that others are saying “OP fell for the scam and is liable for anything that happens”, however, if the same thing happened to those individuals they’d be looking for the bank to cover them.
OP definitely has a case here. Behind the scenes at all banks, there’s particular measures that are taken to flag/alert for these exact situations – in this situation relating to digital wallets, it’s seems as though their fraud detection is behind the times. CBA should have picked up that OP’s spending patterns had changed (by spending $5,000 more than regular, whether it was in one go or total) and that OP was using a different IP address – I’ve seen banks refund for situations where people blatantly spend and then claim fraud.
CBA should be using this as a test case moving forward to improve their fraud rules, so this doesn’t happen to others.
I was scammed in a similar circumstance and money was taken from my account so I locked my card but then money was still being taken out. I followed up with commbank and the representative over the phone said locking accounts doesn’t lock digital wallets but she would reimburse the funds taken from after I had locked my account as she could see I had made attempts to stop myself from being hacked. It’s ridiculous how easy it is for scammers to use all these security measures against people.
By “bank card details” exactly what details are we talking about?
The 2FA should have prevented this. My concern is how they had access to your netcode
I did type out a lengthy reply but long story short, call them and get them to escalate it.
They most likely automatically declined it due to it being completed with a digital wallet, on the banks end it appears as though the purchase was completed with tap & pay / in person.
Bare in mind this only applies if the money came directly off of the digital card, if it didn’t then you need to speak to a different team who will advise you on your next steps.
If you need any help feel free to send me a PM.
Lots of being mad at the builder for leaving your own front door unlocked energy in this sub lately
> I want to know, is there a way for me prove I never received a SMS from CommBank to set up a digital wallet?
More importantly, does CBA have a way to prove that the SMS was sent and the correct code was used. Spoiler – they absolutely do.
What you are arguing needs investigation here is not going to happen – basically you are suggesting that on the day you got knowingly scammed, another unrelated issue at the exact same time resulted in you not receiving a netcode and you losing more money (impacting just you).
Did scammer change your phone number?
You got scammed dude. Thats on you.
Try not to get scammed next time.
Why should the bank compensate you for YOUR stupidity?
All you can do is continue with the complaint. I agree you should have received some notice of the enabling of a digital wallet. Sometimes sms fails to deliver, ie I recently didn’t get an sms but it was in their app saying the company sent it. However it doesn’t explain how the scammers got it, since you say the paying of the toll didn’t require an security sms code. As you clicked on a link, I would wipe your phone if you have not already done so, particularly if it’s an android phone.
Edit: if you need the phone as evidence,I wouldn’t use it till the case is solved.
Can you share the details of the scam? What details did you share and how? This will let the court of Reddit decide if we think you’re at fault or the bank…