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## Understanding the Roth vs Traditional Retirement Dilemma

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14 Comments

  • BouncyEgg

    > seems like no one does

    I dunno man… I feel like /u/werewolfdad does.

    Reading material:

    * https://reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/10qwnrx/why_you_should_almost_never_contribute_to_a_roth/

  • pantlegz

    To me, the only time a Roth makes sense is early in your career when you’re paying little to no taxes or if you want to really plan out future tax implications and pull some retirement from taxed and untaxed sources. Say you expect to pull 150k a year in retirement and want to avoid the 10% increased tax bracket over 89k having Roth funds to cover 61k could, maybe, make sense. Assuming tax brackets stay in line with where they are today and your expected expenses in retirement are on point.

    Roth IRAs for kids is where it’s at, they don’t pay any taxes as long as they earn less than 13k so could earn and invest 5k a year from 14-24 and not put anything else in the account and have 2 million tax free at 65 depending on actual returns. Pair that with tax deferred retirement to keep tax rates as low as possible while earning as well as in retirement.

  • milksteak122

    Great article, a few things I’m glad it highlights:
    1. You need to compare your marginal tax rate today vs your effective tax rate in retirement. People often just think “will taxes be higher in the future” and that is way too simple of an approach. Additionally you can do Roth conversions in early retirement and pay way less taxes on the converted amount.
    2. You need to invest your tax savings with the traditional contributions to make that worth it. That gives someone more money invest in a Roth IRA or taxable brokerage.
    3. Being young doesn’t mean you should do Roth. That sentiment comes from the assumption that you make less in the early part of your career. But if you make $150k at age 22 then it doesn’t make sense to take that huge tax him on the Roth contributions.

    Another thing people should consider is will doing traditional and lowering your taxable income make you eligible for certain tax credits or deductions you wouldn’t be if you didn’t lower your taxable income.

  • Lodotosodosopa

    Why does it have to be one or the other? I contribute equally to both to hedge my bets and give me versatility on how to withdraw in the future.

  • Lbailey32

    The only way I convinced my partner to change form a traditional 401k instead of his Roth was suggesting that he invest the additional money he gets from the tax savings how into a Roth IRA.

    He didn’t care to understand the tax brackets, just that he could save even more money.

  • pancak3d

    This is very well written, thanks for the resource.

  • TheBoltUp

    FYI, the author of the article is the owner of the business that’s trying to sell you the calculator. He’s definitely spinning numbers trying to shock people into buying his product.

    It’s clear and simple because it’s nothing more than an advertisement.

    Edit: I didn’t even realize that Moneyzine bought that company. So the author of the article is the original owner. It definitely reads as one big ad, though.

    Edit 2: Nevermind, I missed right at the beginning where they disclose this. However, it doesn’t change the fact that it reads like an ad, and it’s defintiely spinning numbers to shock.

  • Odd-Explanation-9614

    If my employer has a Roth and traditional would a 50/50 split be a good idea at 100k income level?

  • Raddatatta

    Yeah I think that is a key piece to consider. When you are saving you are taking that money from your top tax bracket. When you are pulling that money out in retirement you start pulling from the low end where money isn’t even taxed at first. Plus your expenses are often lower in retirement as you might have paid off your house, don’t need to be putting money into savings, so you only need to pull out what you’re spending so that’s less.

    There are exceptions of course but roth is best if you are either maxing it and then the Roth is essentially letting you contribute extra, or if you can reasonably expect your income / expenses to rise substantially before you retire.

  • AutoModerator

    You may find these links helpful:

    – [Roth or Traditional](/r/personalfinance/wiki/rothortraditional)
    – [General Information on Rollovers](/r/personalfinance/wiki/retirementaccounts/rollovers)
    – [Retirement Accounts](/r/personalfinance/wiki/index#wiki_retirement)
    – [“How to handle $”](/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics)

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  • Time-Maintenance2165

    The one thing this article doesn’t cover is if you’re maxing out your 401k contributions. With that, a Roth 401k essentially has a higher limit since the dollar value is the same, but it’s with post tax money.

    So yo compare to traditional, you need to compare to maxing out the traditional plus what you can invest on a taxable account.

  • anderbubble

    Quoting the single most important takeaway:

    > A Roth 401k is better when your average tax rate in retirement is higher than the tax bracket you’re in today.

  • Money_Maketh_Man

    Roth vs Tradional is really not that hard. it just a matter of when you want to pay your taxes. I think the problem is that people have such a hard time understanding tax brackets vs effective tax rate. it appears not be a thing that get tough in middle school in the states like it is overseas.

  • AnonUserAccount

    I contribute to a Roth for one simple reason: I plan on retiring early. You can always withdraw contributions without penalty, so if I retire at 50 and delay my pension/401K for a few years, I can live off the Roth. I can then draw some from there after 57.5 in order to increase my income without increasing my tax liability.