- April 4, 2024
- Posted by: legaleseblogger
- Category: Related News
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****** just grabbed a
>A poll from The Washington Post finds widespread agreement among Americans on what it means to be middle class. But just over a third of U.S. adults have the financial security to meet that definition, according to a Post analysis of data from the Federal Reserve.
> Americans also underestimate the income required for that lifestyle, suggesting that the popular image of middle-class security is more of an aspiration than a reality for most Americans.
>About 9 in 10 U.S. adults said that six individual indicators of financial security and stability were necessary parts of being middle class in the Post poll.
The six indicators:
* Secure job
* Ability to save money for the future
* Ability to afford an emergency $1,000 expense without debt
* Ability to pay all bills on time without worry
* Having health insurance
* Ability to retire comfortably
Accordingly, around [35% of U.S. adults](https://ibb.co/vw7Ftsr) meet all six indicators. Of these 35%, [46% fall within middle income](https://ibb.co/nBRFMLy) (defined as between $68,000-203,000 USD for a household of 4).
I’m sharing this gifted article with the community to further the ongoing sub-wide discourse about defining the middle class.
Side note: I personally enjoy how much more active this community has become. Uncivil discourse or trolling aside, it’s been entertaining.
My wife and I teach high school and we meet those criteria. There are a lot of places that pay teachers well.
>”Researchers often define the middle class based on income, in part because income data is frequently collected and easy to access. But that income doesn’t guarantee a middle-class lifestyle.”
I feel like **debt** is such a huge part of this. Mortgage debt. Car payments. Student loans. Medical debt. Credit cards. Home repairs. Unsecured personal loans. HELOC.
I have what I feel like is a “secure” job, though as with basically all corporate jobs it could disappear at any moment through no fault of my own, currently it offers a regular paycheck, room and a path for advancement. The rest of those qualifications I meet to a greater or lesser extent, I’m on track to retire at 65 with a couple of million bucks at that point, who knows if that’s going to be enough, who even knows what the world’s going to look like in 20 years, but as things stand today, I’m pretty solidly in the “middle class”.
Thanks for the article! When I first saw your post title I was like “oh for goodness sakes here we go again”, but this was actually interesting and the information makes sense.
Now cue someone coming in with Pew’s middle class income data from 5 years ago arguing it’s not about qualitative measures like security to dash my fragile sense of progress in this sub.
Guess I’m a lucky unicorn. I meet all 6 indicators.
Good article. 200K HHI being the upper bounds for a family of 4 seems reasonable. Sure, maybe in a HCOL city one could make a case for 250K. Lots of people who post here with 200K+ incomes seem to not grasp the difference between upper middle class, upper class and wealthy. They don’t feel wealthy so they claim middle class when they are clearly upper class. I know I’m in the right sub as my family of 4 is right on with all 6 indicators and a HHI right in the middle of the defined range.
What if we put a definition of what constitutes middle class, upper middle, high, etc in the sidebar of this sub, then maybe have a thread once a month to check in and iterate on that definition.
The sub would have a _lot_ less content lol but the signal to noise ratio would improve
MarketWatch recently listed two criteria: owning the median home in your area and being able to finance one child’s childcare. In some regions thats achievable under $100K and some areas need more.
For some it’s playing catch-up. In my area an upper middle class but I am not. I am so far behind in 401k and am now that I have a decent job I turn around and lose a whole 50% of my gross. I am better on paper than my reality and well be lucky to ever retire which often isn’t a choice because of ageism.
I honestly don’t even know what middle class is anymore. In the 90s, my parents made $40k combined. They were blue collar workers in the Midwest (L to MCOL) who sort of lived pay check to pay check but we always had really good health insurance. A 3bd/2bath ranch home and we drove cars til the wheels fell off. No money for college but never struggled with food or clothes. We did not go crazy at Xmas either (my partner’s family spends more person on Xmas that we ever spent combined but they also have a million dollar home and a beach property)
I make $100k and my partner makes $70k. We spent $200 at one of those arcades with go karts and virtual reality today and it was CRAZY the amount of people and children were there. There was a family of 6 in line in front of us. We do live in a tourist town but jfc. I say the same thing when I go to the theme parks. HOW ARE PEOPLE AFFORDING THIS? Are families with 2+ kids really making that much money??? We never did things like that when I was younger.
My rent payment, student loans, and car payment are half of my monthly take home. We could never afford a baby, we can’t even afford ourselves.
I save for retirement, I have good health insurance, but man, $100k does not go as far as it used to. I don’t think I’ll ever own a home. Maybe in my 40s when my student loans are paid off?
My mom’s mortgage (for 1 month) her car insurance (for 6 months) is less than my rent. But her take home is also one of my semi-monthly pay checks.
Great article and very enlightening. I like the graphics. The a-ha for me is what people think is middle class. I guess I grew up lower middle and am now upper middle. I never viewed the middle class as necessarily having a comfortable retirement. Able to retire? Yes. Comfortably? Not necessarily. More like modestly, I suppose. I guess a lot is in the wording.
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There never has been nor is there now a definition of middle class. It’s a term used in political speeches to make the highest number of people feel like the politician is speaking directly to them.
Oh cool, I have health insurance and can pay my bills.
At least that’s 2/6. My job is so goddamn cutthroat and I’ve been looking for months for another. Feel like any day I’d get screwed.
I agree it makes more sense to divide income classes by objective factors rather than relative factors. It’s tempting to define middle class as simply median income +/- some range, but it’s actually much more useful to use objective factors like the ones listed in the article because they describe quality of life. Lots of specific issues with simply using an income band as well i.e. cost of living variability, age, accumulated wealth, etc.
Factor in the cost of housing, transportation, child care and retirement, no way the median income can cover that.
This article contains the requisite Sankey chart so I guess it fits here.
Does anyone know how those things became so popular?
Most Americans fall in the working class and don’t want to admit it. The middle class has shrunk with many business policies of the 80s and 90s. Instead of discussing the issue, people want to redefine middle class to be the new working class to feel better.
This is a pretty low bar tbh. And the fact only a third can achieve it is scary.
Kind of stupid when you realize the first indicator is the only one that matters.
And almost no one has it.
Thinking about it in terms of “classes” is simply no longer relevant. Why do ppl still talk about “class” and categorical metrics?
This is 2024. Not 1800s anymore. We had class for great part of human history bc guess what? Life was incredibly unfair and your quality of life largely depended on the family you were born into. It was a time when your class literally dictated your economic and social standing and expected opportunities.
Let’s move on from that kind of thinking. All this obsession with “class” is literally kind of backwards and honestly holding ppl back from living their best lives.
You can make millions but have a lot of debt obligations and expenses and live day – day stressed out and unhappy. Similarly you could be earning 60k but have zero debt, low expenses and living a fulfilled chill life with no drama doing what you love with ppl you love.
So many other factors impact quality of life besides income. The focus on income is just a societal force to maintain the status quo and keep the vast majority eternally plugged into a life long career of mediocre satisfaction with financial anxiety and comparing with the jones on a constant basis.
I’m 63 and meet the criteria, though I’ve always put more (15%) towards retirement that I felt like it cut into my everyday lifestyle. I don’t do extravagant vacations. I traveled with my job. I’m happy with local adventures, hiking, exploring in my state, hobbies, etc, but part of my plan is to expand travel adventures with retirement.
I have all of these accept a house and I feel like I’m poor.
Using this calculator, you can determine if you’re in the middle or upper class depending on your state and your income level.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/
I make $88k/year and am middle class. Upper income for my state begins at $93k/year
lack of solidarity. that’s the macro answer. we do not feel a connection to our fellow man and lead with that in all of our endeavors.
Is 68k – 203k gross or AGI?