- February 16, 2024
- Posted by: legaleseblogger
- Category: Related News
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****** just grabbed a
Unless you agreed in a contract that you may be required to use a personal device, you could argue that a requirement to use your personal device for this purpose is not a reasonable instruction under your employment and so you’re entitled to refuse.
If you’ve worked there for less than two years (or one in Northern Ireland) then they would be entitled to respond by saying your services are no longer required and your P45 is in the post.
I have an old iPhone that is used for business use. It only has company apps on it and a giffgaff sim that they have the number to (they donÔÇÖt have my personal number). I only turn it on if I need to (work notifications on the go) and it turns off at 5pm sharp. I would draw the line at installing spyware though and would demand a company provided device.
ItÔÇÖs entirely possible that your phone does not have NFC or is rooted (and safety net is triggered) and you canÔÇÖt install the software
This question comes up often and thereÔÇÖs an entry in the FAQ for it:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/faq_employment/#wiki_can_my_employer_make_me_install_an_app_.28e.g._an_authenticator_or_time_clock_app.29_on_my_personal_device.3F](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladviceuk/wiki/faq_employment/#wiki_can_my_employer_make_me_install_an_app_.28e.g._an_authenticator_or_time_clock_app.29_on_my_personal_device.3f)
IÔÇÖve seen you reply a few times that ÔÇ£they have seen your phoneÔÇØ in regard to buying a cheap work phone, does explicitly say the app needs to be on your personal phone? Because if you tell them you refuse to put the app on your phone, but have got another phone for work purposes, surely thatÔÇÖs a reasonable compromise? But personally I would just refuse and tell them if they want me to have the app, then they should provide a phone and contract.
Leave your phone at home. They canÔÇÖt make you bring in a personal device for what is essentially their usage
Buy a cheap ┬ú30 basic phone if you can and use that when at work. Can’t put an app on basic phones.
got a works phone for work stuff, it goes off when I finished for the day
company uses life360 or something like it, colleagues use it with their kid and they can listen in to her private chats at school and then mention it to her the next week, kid sussed it was the phone and now turns it off.
if they do not want to pay for a work phone would tell them you are not installing it, occasionally the boss calls my personal phone, they get ignored and the call returned when I am next using my work phone.
the tracker will work 24/7 but can be disabled via options or they will be tracking you down the pub…
can see that you are less than 2 years which is not good
worth considering a cheap non smartphone for work as you lost your old smartphone and it is all you can afford
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As nobody has actually stated this. No, they can’t. You have the right to refusal as they have no right to demand a personal device is used for their own business practices. Where this is the case an employer is supposed to provide said equipment. The only exception to this is in cases of being contactable (by your employer only), in which a personal phone can be mandated.
Regarding employee monitoring as a whole however, yes, they can do this and can sack you for not going along with it.
For reference, The Data Protection Act 2018 sets out six key principles that should be followed if employers wish to monitor their employees. They are:
Monitoring must be lawful, fair, and transparent.
The purpose of the monitoring must be specified, explicit, and legitimate.
If employee monitoring involves collecting or using personal information, the data collected must be adequate, relevant, and not excessive.
The personal data must be accurate and kept up to date.
If personal data is collected, it shouldnÔÇÖt be kept for any longer than is necessary.
Information gathered through monitoring should be kept secure.
As long as they’re keeping to that, then they’re fine.
However the one complaint I’d have is the third around personal date. This app potentially violates privacy law on personal data, and I’d be questioning that and asking for evidence of how and why your data is used, and what data is collected.
The issue however is this. While you have a right to refusal, they also have a right to refusal of employment. So unfortunately it is very much a Catch-22.
If you have a union available to you, join them. I imagine others will be having this same concern too, and you have more power in numbers against unreasonable practices such as this.
Buy a £20 burner, let the company IT guy figure it out, bc you are not tech savy enough.
How long have you worked there?
A simple email to your employer stating that you wouldn’t feel comfortable with a third party having digital access to your personal device and data .
Therefore your legal team advise you that it’s a huge potential for a gdpr data breach against your personal data, which is outside of the companies control.
So for this reason I am unwilling to put my personal data at risk by having third party apps on my Personal phone.
But If you are willing to supply me with a company device I’d be quite happy to download and use whatever apps you would like me to.
Does your contract or company have a policy about BYOD or bring your own device?
That will usually cover things like this. That being said I’d not feel comfortable installing an app to be spied on with and I commend you for taking a stand.
You do have to ask yourself is this the kind of company you want to be working for long-term?
Your device can be seized and the contents viewed under Freedom of Information requests if you work for the council and have work related information on it, including just emails.
Absolutely I would tell them to provide you with a work device. If they want it to have net access and phonecalls they will need to provide that to themselves.
Currently work for an employer that asks employees to download an authentication app to log in. We’ve had a couple of colleagues decline. In those cases we’ve had to find an alternative because it’s a personal device and we didn’t want to buy them a work mobile.
Also check your policies on data security etc. I worked for a different employer who said if we used our personal phones for work the organisation has the right to remotely wipe them should they become lost.
Op – your replies to efforts to help you are curious. You respond as if youÔÇÖre afraid of your employer? You have posted this on a legal advice forum, so I assume youÔÇÖre unfamiliar with UK laws? We donÔÇÖt allow employers to coerce or control employees.
Yes, they may have seen your phone. However, you own your phone. They donÔÇÖt. Just like they donÔÇÖt own your car or flat. They have no right to demand you do anything to your property.
If you donÔÇÖt want to use your phone for company purposes (spyware or whatever else) you donÔÇÖt have to.
If you choose to change your phone, thatÔÇÖs your choice. They have no say over it.
Are you safe OP? This is a worrying post, IMO.
Time to find a new job, if possible. Clearly trust has broken down between management and employees.
I have a friend who works at a company that tried to do this. Their reasoning was that staff spend too much time on social media during the day and weren’t focusing on the job or the meetings.
The staff pushed back over privacy concerns, which is reasonably understandable, so the companies end result was to simply install lockers in a side room off reception until which all mobile phones were secured during the work day.
The company is legally allowed to ask – having staff working during working hours isn’t unreasonable. You’re legally allowed to refuse – it is your device after all. They’re legally allowed to achieve their goal in other ways.
If not stipulated within your contract yes you can refuse but why? I work in IT and have end users installed authenticators on their mobiles and luckily I have had no push back but the recommend “work around” for difficult users usually ends up in them installing in the required on their phone because the alternative is a ball ache.
I fully support your right to keep this off your device but im warning you that the alternative solution they come up with may actually be worse than the initial request they are asking.
Why not buy a $50-$100 used smartphone just for installing this app. That way, you’re seperating work and personal phones and keep the employer happy with minimum loss. I guess that’s a good compromise. Ideally, you should be able to deny their request though.
Purchase a Nokia 3310 remake. Carry that around ÔÇ£as your main personal mobile deviceÔÇØ
It doesnÔÇÖt have NFC, canÔÇÖt install teams etc so they canÔÇÖt force shit on you. Force their hand to get you a company phone.
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If your employer requires you to have a smartphone for your work, they must provide it. Your personal devices are just that, personal. Given that owning a smartphone is not a legal requirement, and you would be free to get rid of yours at any time, making it a condition of employment is unenforceable.
I really donÔÇÖt understand why you are even considering this. They are not allowed in law unless it is written in your contact to have access to your personal phone. They would have to rewrite everyoneÔÇÖs contract and you would all have to sign. They have to provide you with a work phone and they have to ask you to agree and sign a form consenting to using that phone for work. They canÔÇÖt not ask you to use your own phone for work or ask you to download an app. I donÔÇÖt know which company you work for but they are breaking the law.
I would look for another job and report them to your union rep even if youÔÇÖre not a member. I would also report them to whatever body oversees them. Just say no!
Just download the app and then turn all mobile data and connections to the outside world off and tell them it doesnÔÇÖt work.
They are perplexed and canÔÇÖt fix it and you have done what they have asked. Problem solved 🙂
Hey if they require a smart phone for work at least that’s a tax return capital expense.
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In my opinion it is unreasonable of them to ask this without alternative routes for those who canÔÇÖt/wonÔÇÖt.
We have a new desk booking system going in which is app only and most donÔÇÖt have company phones, as a result I have made it clear we cannot expect people to use their own devices and there must be alternative routes made available via the corporate equipment for my team of ~80.
If they decide they are happy to do so then great but for me it cannot me a unilateral expectation.
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This is kind of difficult. To track what you’re doing whilst working implies you have your phone for work.
I’m a little confused as to the nature of your work and how your phone is relevant. If you use your phone as part of your work they may have implied terms about a device, for example, you got to site X when contacted to do so. You receive communications from your mobile and so you have an implied term you’ve agreed to.
(I think that example fits the implied terms definition).
A while back I set up work emails on an old phone of mine so my wife could hear when she received an email when she was ‘on call to respond’ but not required to stare at the wall all evening. This was purely connected to the home WiFi. Neither wanted her personal device to be burdened with work. This wasn’t asked for by the company but fit the situation.
Not quite the same, but some years back I was on pay as you go with an ancient phone. Company wanted me to regularly call in but wouldn’t give me a phone. They eventually agreed to pay for my expenses, so I noted calls and at least doubled the costs before claiming – I was providing it after all! After about 6 months, they realised that it would be cheaper to give me a phone!
On the app thing though, my brother had OP’s situation and later accidentally broke his phone. He could not use the app on his new phone and lost all access. Management couldn’t care less, just kept moaning he wasn’t using it
Get an old phone out of the tech graveyard, if you don’t have an old phone one of your friends will. Put the app on that and its job done.
Or
Get hold of an old dumb phone.
Just buy a shitty second phone to download the app onto
Just go on eBay and buy the cheapest Android phone you can find. Make sure it’s not stolen and IMEI blocked though.
That way you can comply with what they’re looking for, and keep your own phone clean.
The NFC requirement is pretty shitty though, as not a lot of cheap phones are rocking NFC yet.
If they do force you to have it then just make sure it never works, deny permissions
Can you even download apps on a Nokia 3310? (Hint). But seriously, be sure to keep a copy of all emails and other information regarding this on a computer AWAY from work (i.e. forward emails to a home account). Photograph any posted notices, and keep any texts and Whatsapp’s (and don’t forget employers are getting sneaky and using dissapearing messages so screenshot them!).
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Some solid advice in the comments OP. But I would suggest a different strategy, install the APP kill its permissions and exclude it from the Internet. I doubt they will figure out anything if you haven’t made a fuss already.
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They can’t force you to install any work related apps on a personal device unless your contract says so and your company has a valid reason for requesting this.
A more reasonable approach would be for your employer to adopt a BYOD policy (Bring Your Own Device) which is tied to your corporate IAM (Identity Access Management). Typically this would allow a separate partition on your device to be created for any business related apps that your employer wants you to use. They can manage which apps can be installed on that partition and they can remotely wipe that partition. The rest of your phone is completely separate from that.
It sounds to me like this isn’t the case, they just want you to use your personal advice which I believe is overstepping.
My advice would be: “If it makes no sense, challenge it”. I’m sure UK law would back you up on this but I am not a lawyer.
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Buy a cheap phone ƒô▒ or use an old one if you have one .. and just use it for that … You don’t need a Sim card … Just connect to your hotspot when you need to use it …
Saves a lot of hassle with your company…