- April 24, 2024
- Posted by: legaleseblogger
- Category: Related News
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## Using AI Legalese Decoder to Help with Elderly Parents’ Financial Situation
My parents, both in their seventies, are reaching a point where they require more assistance. However, they lack assets and have accumulated substantial debt, largely due to my father’s susceptibility to scams over the years. Despite my discussions with a lawyer confirming that this behavior does not indicate diminished capacity, the financial situation remains a significant challenge.
While they do receive a decent income from a private pension and government benefits, it surpasses my earnings from two jobs. Unfortunately, they are unable to afford the current market rate for housing in their area and face an imminent illegal eviction. Rent non-payment issues further complicate their living situation, and their creditworthiness may hinder them from obtaining a lease.
As their only child, I am unable to provide full financial support, although efforts are underway to explore debt consolidation options to alleviate some financial strain. Convincing my father to cease falling for scams presents a formidable obstacle, as sustainability of any solution hinges on this crucial change.
Contemplating the future, I am left pondering the ultimate outcome for individuals in similar circumstances as my parents as they age. Exploring the possibility of transitioning them to a seniors living facility on a trial basis seems feasible, but raises concerns about potential consequences if payment issues persist.
The AI Legalese Decoder can assist in deciphering complex legal jargon and navigating potential legal implications of various financial decisions. By utilizing this tool, we can gain a clearer understanding of the legal ramifications of debt consolidation, eviction proceedings, and potential housing options for elderly individuals with financial constraints. Additionally, exploring long-term care options and legal safeguards for vulnerable adults may provide insights into securing a more stable future for aging parents.
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If they go to a senior living centre that is just a regular apartment for older people they could be evicted. If they go to an assisted living facility they might have access to a social worker who could try to help them.
You can’t help your father if he doesn’t want help. You could check 211 to see what resources are available. 211 is a directory of social services.
Others have sufficiently talked about provincial care homes, so I’ll skip that.
I don’t get the scam part. If your father keeps falling for scams (many of which are probably pretty obvious), isn’t that a sign of diminished mental capacity? He appears to not have the ability to make logical and rational decisions himself. I would go get a second opinion.
The main issue is the scamming. At the end of the day, OAS/CPP is enough for a couple to live off of, at least somewhere rural. Debt consolidation wouldn’t help if he will keep losing his money so that’s probably not a priority.
Is he willing to give you access to his bank account? If so, maybe pull out the money the instant CPP/OAS hits, and pay their rents/essentials yourself with that money? That way, your father will have less/no money to lose. You might even be able to take it a step further and set up online grocery/medicine delivery so they would have to do even less transactions.
If he’s willing, great. Ideally set up a PoA and take care of the finances. If he’s not, he’s either mentally incapacitated (talk to a lawyer about conservatorship) or he’s unwilling to receive help (at which point there’s nothing you can do- but I doubt he is).
Unfortunately, the end game is that they either learn to begin applying their funds to the regular payment of rent so they have a place to live, or they don’t and experience the consequences. You can try to connect them with services, but you can’t force them to accept, and you can’t make them change.
They will need to go to a provincially funded nursing home. Most if not all of their income will go directly to the govt. The govt pays the rest of the bill.
My grandmother was in a home, her entire pension from the railway would go straight to the province and the province pays the rest of the nursing home monthly bill. This is what they’ll need to do.
Get on the waiting list ASAP as it’s often a multi year wait. They also go to whatever home the province assigns them. In the case of my grandmother this meant she was 100km away from nearest family. We then put her on another list to be moved closer once a space was available..it’s first come first serve so get on the list today.
I can’t stress enough to get on the list now. Even if your parents are otherwise healthy, are living on their own just fine now, get on the list. At that age a lot can change in 2-3 years. Get on the list. In 2 years if one of them takes a fall, suddenly they’ll have wished they were on the list and they’ll be thankful if they are.
The end game is they will either end up homeless or in a provincial care home. Given the debt problems, homelessness seems more likely. You unfortunately can’t help people who won’t be helped.
I am a senior. Your parents are 100% responsible for where they are. Your father for spending money and your mother for not stopping him. I would be horrified to depend on my kids to raise me.
>what is the end game here?
that they will have a miserable retirement couch hopping.
What ever they decide, you should NOT give them any money. It’s all self-inflicted.
I would give them them boundaries, this is how I can help, call me when you agree to this. It might mean they get evicted before they agree. Personally unless you have control of their finances there is nothing that might help. As for your mom, try to help her as much as you can since it sounds like she is under his control/fiances.
My parents are just like this. They ended up on the brink of getting evicted, in huge debt to payday loan places – I had the advantage of siblings, but we sat them down and said the only way we would help them is I’d they gave over control of their finances. They were out of options, so agreed – they get a weekly allowance, extra money for holidays/birthdays etc, but everything else (dealing with landlord, bills, arrangements with bell, taxes etc) is managed by us. It was hard, especially at first, but we no longer worry about them getting evicted at least.
I work in pensions and I’ll never understand why that generation is so damn stubborn. I’ve seen so many situations where seniors/boomers are getting completely wrecked by their choice to be extremely stubborn. It’s infuriating and sad at the same time. At this point their only real option is government run facalties
homeless probably if they don’t want to live in government facilities.
Take care of yourself, don’t let their problems be yours.
You can’t afford to bail them out. Don’t try to bail them out.
The sooner they realize their situation the sooner they’ll change it.
Fyi, I’ve watched many of these slow motion train wrecks over the years. You’re likely more stressed about their situation than they are.
Edit to remove some personal details as I said I would
This happens often where family members call in wellness check for their parents who are falling for scams
A few thoughts
1) you parents are free to make poor decisions unless they are incapable. Capacity assessments can be found here in ON at ontario.ca
Folks can be placed under financial guardianship or complete guardianship
2) POA only kicks in if they are incapable moment to moment. No Capacity assessment is required
Retirement homes fall under the LTB and people can be evicted. They run from essentially room and board to fancy fancy
Nursing homes are for those who are unable to care for themselves, such as feeding toiletries and dressing.
So all this to say if your parents choose to continue as they have they will be homeless. Unless they are asking for your help your suggestions will likely be unwelcome. There are motels that rent by the month cash upfront. Eventually what happens is some sort of health care crisis that requires a nsg home placement.
Local housing services will work with them but will look at their income and they likely won’t qualify
The best predictor of future behavior is past behaviour. Unless they are interested in handing their finances 100% over to you they will continue as they have.
I can certainly empathize with your position as my father was the same. Iraqi Dinar and crypto are just 2 that I know of. We were able to get my parents into a subsidized apartment due to their income but this might not be an option for you. We transitioned Dad into a Provincial LTC home after Mom passed.
I was only able to help once Mom took over the finances and they both gave me POA. This happened after Dad’s dementia was such that he couldn’t manage. He still has the dream though but can’t action anything without access to money.
I know too well what you are dealing with and hope that he will let you help. Until then there isn’t much you can do. Wish you all the best.
All of these issues are not worth discussing if your father is going to keep falling for scams. You need to get POA, or preferably a conservatorship so you can control their finances. I know you said he does not have diminished capacity, but if he’s falling for the Nigerion prince shit, then trust me, he does. If you can acquire any sort of documentation showing how he repeatedly fell for obvious scams, then you should be able to prove that a conservatorship would be necessary, though it would be easiest if you can just convince your father to give you control of all finances. In that situation, you setup his payments for healthcare/rent, and give him $200-$300 per week **in cash** for groceries and other expenses, and don’t let him spend another penny on bullshit. Might even be better to give him like a Wal-mart gift card for the same amount instead of cash so he can only spend it on necessities.
Stopping the scams has to be the priority. They will absolutely be on the street if it does not stop.
Let them be homeless. It is sad and tough, but they need to learn the hard way.
Look into [senior services](https://www.ontario.ca/document/guide-programs-and-services-seniors) in Ontario.
Get call control on your parents phone to weed out all the scam calls and telemarketers
I will also chime in as someone who works in LTC/assisted living facilities: get in contact with a social worker in their area to see what can be done. At the very least a social worker should be able to provide alternative information or resources for you to be able to help them. Make sure you explain that you suspect your father may have brain damage from when he was a child, and that he continues to fall for scams and has since you can remember. Explain that your father controls the finances and your mother doesn’t have any control over it and how you’re worried for her because of that. Finally, explain that you are also worried they will become homeless. All these things are red flags and are things that social workers are trained to deal with. Again, if the social worker can’t get involved with your parents directly without their consent, at least they may be able to provide you with alternative resources.
Would it be possible to just speak to your mother about these things and get her on board with a social worker? Even if she just agrees to see or talk to a social worker for her that is better than nothing. Perhaps your dad can’t be helped but your mom might be. If possible, I would sit down and have a very frank conversation with both parents: if they continue down this path, they will become homeless. They will not have the same access to doctors and medical specialists. Homelessness takes over the elderly population very quickly and without access to proper shelter, food, and doctors, your parents will go downhill fast. It’s dangerous enough to be homeless as a woman, but tack on elderly and going blind and that life will NOT be kind to her especially. They need a reality check. If you’re not able to do that, perhaps a social worker may be able to. Certainly worth looking into!
Have they considered getting jobs? Walmart greeter etc? Minimum wage is $17.20 per hour. X2 people that’s not nothing. If they catch up on their rent they’ll most likely be able to stay where they are. The market is super competitive to get new rentals so I’d be very careful letting them leave theirs, especially if there have been payment issues at the last one.
You or your mother could try to get POA for him, at least remove his ability to drain the bank account from scams…
With such a sizeable pension plan giving them guaranteed income every month, how can they not afford rent? Is all the money going to debt repayments or something?
If they claim bankruptcy they can eliminate the debts and as far as I know the pension remains safe and can’t be touched (though would need advice of a bankruptcy trustee here). This would reset everything, and doesn’t sound like they have much use for a good credit score anymore. Then you’d just need to make sure he doesn’t fall for more scams going forward.
If they are in Ontario they don’t have to leave wherever they are living now until there’s an LTB hearing and they actually issue an eviction order. Since you mention it’s an illegal eviction, it sounds like they can simply stay put.
You should see if you can take control of some of their finances/income, and perhaps allocate them a monthly allowance or something after ensuring key needs are paid for. Of course they’d have to voluntarily do this. If they move into a seniors place they can perhaps set up the pension to it pays some amount directly to them or in some separate account to cover the rent.
Assuming he/she hasn’t named another person in Will, when one passes first the other may have a hard time paying bills as they likely rely heavily on the spouse’s CPP/OAS benefits, so be aware of that. Unfortunately with bad credit and no health issues that require publicly funded nursing home care, they are facing homelessness, particularly if they do have investments that brings their income above what it would have to be to qualify for low income housing and programs that could help with the rental costs.
Perhapse you could possibly find a life insurance policy your mom could pay for out of her accounts on your Dad as she’s likely to live longer, for people over 70 that would help her if all the debt is in his name, she would get the insurance payment outside of his estate so it wouldn’t go to his debt unless he’s taken some out in her name.
You never have to pay a deceased relatives debt out of your own money unless you were a co-signer for some of the debt, if they have investments left they would be cashed and funeral costs would be paid first (the $2500 CPP death benefit can cover low cost options), followed by estate fees like lawyer and accountants and associated fees to administer the estate, then taxes, then any other money left is divided amongst the creditors until it’s gone or you have entered the estate into bankruptcy. If anything is left after debts you inherit it (or possibly the spouse if one still lives and there’s no Will naming beneficiaries).
The main issue when a person passes insolvent is getting them buried or cremated because the executor has to sign off for it to happen, and if you refuse the role then a public trustee will be appointed, but you have no say what happens then. If you just wanted to pay the funeral expenses yourself in some cases that’s viewed as accepting the role of executor, in order to sign off at the funeral home. If you do act as executor and do everything correctly you wouldn’t be personally liable for any debt but you also don’t get any money out of the estate so it’s a thankless job.
My advice as someone in the middle of this process: be prepared for some very challenging years.
If they’re not willing to admit to any financial problems, then it’s an uphill battle for you until life makes choices for them. At best, you can help them navigate whatever supports become available at that time.
If they admit to a problem, they’ll still need to accept your help **in full** otherwise you’ll be fighting residual stubbornness for years. In my case, I was able to help when parents saw the immediate crisis of losing their home but they never acknowledged the choices that brought them to that point so they’re slowly falling into another crisis point.
Having PoA is key, not just because it allows you to help without constantly having them on the phone or in person with you, but it also indicates a willingness to accept your help. Without that willingness, you’ll have to choose between fighting them and their bad choices (and generally losing and feeling frustrated), or standing by and watching the inevitable unfold.
What makes you so sure they lose medical care if they switch provinces? Maybe look into that because it’s possible they would get something and could maybe load up on visits and medicines before they go, until the new province’s healthcare kicks in. And I think they would be covered in emergencies, so maybe check. Them being nearer may help you assist in future, plus you say they’re in Ontario, so, depending where you are, maybe their pensions would go a bit further in another province? Of course they would need to agree to the move, but maybe worth exploring if they could be convinced
Why aren’t they fighting the illegal eviction? How is it illegal?
I don’t know if this is something your parents would qualify for, (Sorry I don’t have any expertise) but I was reading about a service where social workers would receive their clients welfare or disability payments, pay their rent, and then turn over the balance to their client. So, if they only had $120.00 to make due with after rent they would manage on that the best they could, but at least they wouldn’t be homeless. I wonder if their a service like that that could help your parents?
Also sounds like your mom is being financially abused. Your dad probably wouldn’t be open to counselling but he needs some.
Believe it or not.. Straight to jail
I am sorry OP but it sounds like your father has created the situation and also making the situation worse. What do you mean he always falls for scams? How does one continue to fall for scams im sorry… Is it like he tries to get quick money and ends up losing in the end ?
Long term care homes – taka a % of monthly income for payment if public.
They typically either pass away, rely on family for care, or surrender their assets to enter nursing homes that may offer inadequate services.
They either die, get taken in by family, or sign over all their assets to go into a home that likely provides substandard care.
The future solutions likely will just be die faster via MAID.
Homelessness and then death
Straight to jail.