- May 5, 2024
- Posted by: legaleseblogger
- Category: Related News
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## Job Termination and Vehicle Repayment Dispute
I recently lost my job in November due to the termination of my contract. During my last meeting with HR, I was informed that if I were to continue working at the company, I would no longer be provided with a vehicle following a minor van accident. This forced me to find alternative means of transportation for each job, ultimately leading to the decision for me to leave the company. At no point during this discussion was there any mention of repaying the company for the van damages.
Yesterday, I received a letter from the company demanding repayment of over $2k for the van damages. This has left me questioning the legality of this situation and wondering if I have grounds to fight against this demand. Furthermore, I have no documentation, such as emails, discussing the repayment of the damages after being coerced into resigning from my position.
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****** just grabbed a
They want you to pay for van damage?
That’s what insurance is for. I would ignore them or reply in writing advising them to claim from their own insurance.
“At the time of the incident in question, I was an authorised user of a company vehicle. The incident was entirely unintentional/accidental, and in no way deliberate or malicious.
As such should be covered by the insurance cover, that you are required by law, to hold for such eventualities that take place during work hours and purposes.
I refuse your claim that as an authorised user, I was financially liable for unintentional damage caused during authorized business use of this vehicle. That should be covered under the insurance that you are obliged to hold.
Yours sincerely
OP”
Send that and then get in touch with Citizens Advice. I’m not sure, but fairly certain that even if they had something hidden in your contract that said you are financially responsible for all damage to company vehicles. That may be an unenforceable contract term.
See why they come back with, and compare that to the CA advice. Or come back with another question when you know more.
Seems they’ve got this backwards.
What you describe isn’t a firing, it’s a compromise agreement… they would normally pay you to leave in this scenario, but sounds like you didn’t realise that’s what was going on, so they boned you.
Absolutely do not pay this. And if you have proof that you were pressured to resign or face worsened working conditions, you’ve got a constructive dismissal claim imo
I’d write and tell them that you require their insurers details for your solicitor. I would not expect a reply.
If it’s for an excess then send them a copy of your contract which, I presume, has no mention of you being liable for any damage or excess. If it does speak to ACAS about its fairness.
If they persist, politely ask them to request the court hearing in the afternoon so you can laugh at them in the bar afterwards.
Question – Is a company required to report any incident to their insurance at the time, in the same way an individual is?
If so, it sounds like they haven’t done this.
NAL
What is the £2k for?
Overpaid wages, taken too many holidays, unreturned company equipment, etc?
If the accident was in a works van, the works insurance will cover it. You can’t be held liable for covering their excess unless you were negligent in which case they would have investigated and likely sacked you for gross misconduct.
Unless you signed something when you started to say that you’re liable for the cost of vehicle repairs, or the policy excess in an insurance claim, they’re just trying it on. Ask for clarification of what the charge is and evidence of why you’re liable.
I’m confused, you said you were fired, but have also said you would have been allowed to stay but couldn’t have a company vehicle, so you agreed to leave…
Did you get fired or did you leave?
They fired you for having a car accident by removing your vehicle and telling you you might as well leave. Sounds like they just didn’t want to pay the increase in your insurance.
You could sue them for constructive dismissal as telling you you had to get yourself to each job on your own wasn’t viable. I’d speak to an employment lawyer.
You need to check your contract.
If it states in your written contract, or a separate written agreement, that you will be liable for damage to company property then the £2k is yours.
If there’s no written contract or separate agreement then the £2k is not yours.
If it is in the contract (or swa), then there was no need to discuss it at your dismissal as you were (deemed) already aware of it.
The employer has a duty to mitigate its cost, so if the insurance policy excess is less than £2k, that’s the amount you should be paying, the excess.
Hahaha. Tell them to deal with themselves. They sacked you, it’s now THEIR issue, not yours.
Is your back suddenly hurting from the accident? Go claim on that. Tell these clowns to sit and swivel
“Dear Sirs, I was greatly entertained by your highly amusing letter of [insert date]. However, in the remote chance that you were being serious, I would refer you to Arkell v Pressdram. Yours faithfully.”
If OP was using the vehicle in his personal time then they can claim damages if this was framed outside of the agreement for having a vehicle…maybe this is why they have let them go ..misuse of company property.
You’re an employee who has damaged a company vehicle with business insurance on the vehicle.
You don’t owe them shit and you should invite them to get a court order and to provide reasons as to why this isn’t being dealt with through their insurance cover. That’s what it’s for.
By law employers are vicariously liable for their employees inside their working hours, meaning they take responsibility for what you do during work unless done with malicious intent.
Whatever agreement is, it cannot override the law.
Only possible way for them to claim anything from you is that they put you down as a contractor/self employed doing some work for them but even this can be contested.
Most reasonable thing you can do right now is get your original contract and pay solicitor to go over it with you. It will cost you about 100 but it’s always a good investment.
Did the incident happen while working? If so, it’s a work related incident.
Their insurance will take care of it.
Tell them to pound sand.
You made it too easy for them. You should have made them fire you. Do they do this with all employees that have an accident? Doesn’t seem right, so many accidents happen in road and People still drive for work
As you are under two years employed then you could be dismissed for no particular reason and have no recourse (ie to an employment tribunal )
The company is responsible for motor insurance on its fleet of vehicles, and said insurance, if it requires an excess to be paid, said excess should be paid by the company.
This sounds to me like a small company trying to avoid making an insurance claim and making you pay for the damage caused to the other vehicle.
So, yes you can ” fight this ” – just say NO I am not paying this and if you have any sort of case Either explain it to me or take me to court.
I’d ask them about their insurance, like which insurance company are they with? Because blanket fleet insurance is expensive and I’ve got a sneaking suspicion they’ve decided to try to make you pay rather than claim and face higher insurance premiums.
Did your contract state anything about using your own insurance when driving company vehicles?
Most they could reasonably try to claim back from you is the insurance excess. But even then they would find that difficult.
Tell them you’re not paying.
Did you give them your license for them to copy to be put on their insurance like I did with mine? Others have had minor dings and the company just claims off the insurance. If a court order turns up seek advice and see your MP too
That’s not how being employed and driving a work van works. Sounds like they weren’t insured and are trying it on. I would send them a drawing of seven legged spider as payment.
The van must of been insured and if they didn’t go through the insurance then that’s there problem if they fixed it privately no court will uphold this
My thought is that since they terminated the contract, they no longer have the legal right to ask you to abide by any terms of the contract, unless all this was done prior to terminating the contract.
I would suggest the following reply:
Go home, you’re DRUNK.
NAL but as others have said this will be covered by their insurance. They’re trying to screw you.
How did the damage happen?
Can I just confirm that you were in fact employed and not an “independent contractor”
We you driving recklessly, were you impaired while driving?
Their insurance company will not cover certain things, and it will come out of the company’s pocket.
If you were at fault for dangerous/reckless driving or impaired driving, they can sue you.
Are they asking you to repay for the van damage???
Or are they asking you to repay for holiday days in lieu taken but not yet earned
Hello IAL
To assist you with your problem here are some hopefully helpful observations below:
1. There does not need to be a provision in your (previous) contract of employment to allow them to sue you for breach of contract and/or breach of duty either during your employment or after. They DO need a term in your contract to be able to deduct it from your wages direct but that is not your problem here.
2. The fact you were on work duty when the accident happened is of limited relevance (if you were not at work at the time that could have other implications re: contract and any contracted use of the vehicle). If you were driving negligently you can still be liable for that during work duty. I am not aware of any principle that effectively gives an employee immunity from committing torts/breaches of contract against their employer simply because they did so in the course of their employment.
3. The insured position of your employer is irrelevant. This may seem unfair but the insurance is taken out for their benefit not to reduce the liability of someone who commits a wrong against them. This is res inter alios acta (business between others). So in theory you could be liable for the totality of the damages above and beyond any insurance premium – that is not the limit of the employer’s losses/their insurers losses.
4. Also re: vicarious liability. Just because an employer is liable for the actions of their employee carried out in the course of their business does not render the employee immune/not liable – both are liable. The big question is often over the liability of the employer because they have deeper pockets.
Your best steps going forward would be:
a. Get your employer to confirm 1) what you’ve done wrong and 2) on what basis you are liable to them.
b. Subject to the answer above, you may wish to explain your position/deny liability/admit some fault/say this was all settled when you were sacked etc. whatever you feel is appropriate/true or simply ask them to prove it. You may want to ask them to send over proof that you did XYZ or whatever they alleged – if they say you drove negligently ask them to provide proof of the same.
c. They may not choose to take it further but they will have 6 years to bring a claim against you from the date of the alleged breach by you (i.e. the accident).
d. Thereafter if they persist you may have to take a view over whether they are just threatening to take it further or are intent on doing so. You may well be able to negotiate a reduced payment to them/the insurers (if it is their insurers who end up pursuing you) so also bear this in mind though I appreciate even stumping half the £2k (for example) is a lot of money.
e. Of course, you can take whatever step above and then post back in this Subreddit for further advice in due course!
Hope you get a positive outcome.
Edited: to add spaces and bit I forgot to add about vicarious liability.
Sounds to like you have a counter case for constructive dismissal. By banning you from driving a company vehicle you couldn’t fulfil your duties.
Sounds like they left you no option rather than go through appropriate channels of verbal, written, final warning etc. or offence is so bad it’s considered gross misconduct with, effective, instant dismissal.
A bump in a van doesn’t sound like gross misconduct so it looks like it’s an over reaction to force you out.
Is there more history here than your post?
I’m not a lawyer and I have a limited understanding of UK law but it seems like your ex employer is trying to scare you if you still have the papers you filled out for employment look over the polices they made you aware of but short of the damages being from you stealing a car radio or somthing like I would tell them to get bent and send the order
I think I’d reply with something along the lines of “How quaint. The van was damaged on work business. That is why you have insurance. Use it.”
Read your employment contract. Liability for loss or damage to company property in your possession, including petty cash is often included.
The normal requirements, if any at all, would be an expectation to pay the insurance excess
Sounds like they got it repaired and didn’t declare it to their insurance, to avoid premium hikes