Unlocking the Truth: How AI Legalese Decoder Can Shed Light on the Pew Research Center’s Middle Class Definition
- May 24, 2024
- Posted by: legaleseblogger
- Category: Related News
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## Why the Definition of Middle Class Matters in Socioeconomic Discussions
In today’s discussions about American socioeconomic status, it is crucial to have a clear definition of what constitutes the middle class. As someone with a background in the social sciences and extensive experience using Pew as a resource for this data, I believe that Pew’s reliable definition provides a valuable framework for understanding this concept.
For decades, Pew has been at the forefront of analyzing American socioeconomic data and updating their definition of the middle class based on recent trends. Their middle class calculator, which takes into account the cost of living in different metro areas, offers a comprehensive and nuanced perspective on this topic. The data provided by Pew is not arbitrary; it is supported by rigorous research conducted by experts who have dedicated their lives to studying these issues.
Despite the discomfort that may come with acknowledging one’s own financial status, it is important to consider the objective measures that Pew and other reputable sources provide. By relying on data-driven analyses rather than subjective perceptions, we can have more meaningful discussions about socioeconomic inequality and class distinctions.
### How AI Legalese Decoder Can Help
The AI Legalese Decoder can facilitate this discussion by analyzing complex legal language and translating it into plain and understandable terms. By using this tool to decipher the technical jargon often found in socioeconomic data and research reports, individuals can better grasp the nuances of the middle class definition and engage in informed debates. This AI technology serves as a valuable resource for demystifying complex concepts and promoting clarity in discussions about socioeconomic issues.
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****** just grabbed a
Your first mistake is assuming we know what it is.
Apparently I’m upper class. The bar isn’t too high where I’m at, 105k gross for a married couple is the cutoff
Guess I’ll see you suckers later, going to the rich people subs
It would have been nice if you included the definition.
What is even the point of this sub anymore? Is it just people arguing about what middle class is?
I once read some research years ago that when asked an absurdly high proportion of people will self-identify as middle class, regardless of any degree of accuracy.
Lower class implies both poverty as well as the cultural trapping associated with it and in the US in particular the “upper class elite” has its own issues with snobbery and exclusionary behavior.
This will probably get me down voted but I think there’s probably some portion of people who are upper middle or higher who insist on being middle class based on their perceptions because to do otherwise is to admit that they make plenty and do a poor job of allocating their resources.
It says i am middle class, yet i can’t afford a home, daycare costs, or car payments, don’t have a social life, and am not going on vacation at all. Is this what middle class is? It’s a definition that has different meaning than it used to due to difference in lifestyle of those with a “middle income”. Middle income does not reflect the reality of what has been afforded by the middle class in the past.
Reddit is populated by young people who live on the coasts in big cities. Higher incomes and much higher CoL.
Also “middle-class” is always a contentious term because people don’t like to think of themselves as poor or rich, so you end up with a lot of people identifying as such when they statistically aren’t. There is also a resistence to classifying people as middle-class on amongst some younger folk, I think, who tend to separate people into “ultra rich” and “everyone else”.
Because Reddit is mostly people that’s re younger. Apparently this Pew number was $145k in 2020, so likely $160k household income now.
I’m right at the mark and things are tight. However, we have a nice house in a good area and have 2 kids in daycare. I have no doubts that in a decade my finances will look great, but it certainly doesn’t feel like it now.
Vibes man. Vibes.
I think we should do a better job of differentiating between the terms “middle income” and “middle class”. Middle class is a Victorian era term that referred to professionals and middle management that were neither poor nor landowners, essentially “peasants with ties”, or in a three class society, simply referring to “the middle one”, being neither the top or bottom 1%. So by the original definition of middle class, it’s the middle 98%.
Middle income refers to what Pew is studying, and they specifically use that term. Middle income is a constantly moving target and appeals to our fondness for “relative prosperity”. We don’t care if we have a private jet, we just care if our neighbor has a private jet.
It’s all psychology.
We don’t like to think of ourselves as “lower class” because it makes us feel like we’re dependent on others or we associate “the poor” with people dependent on government or charitable assistance.
We don’t like to think of ourselves as “upper class” because it feels elitist or we don’t feel like we’re as well off as celebrities, CEOs, and politicians who are the real “rich/ upper class.”
Hence why a recent Pew study found only 10% of people self-identifying as lower class and only 1% calling themselves upper class. Statistically, 89% of the country isn’t actually middle class, but we all want to think we are because it comes with the least amount of guilt or shame.
I think the sub mixes two separate definitions, and then argues about it, which is not helpful.
The first is the actual financial data. The middle class in that sense is the middle 50% of incomes. Those numbers are what they are, no matter how anyone “feels” about it. If you make more than the middle 50%, you are making more than the majority of people and are not in the middle. Doesn’t matter if you live paycheck to paycheck or feel like you are rich.
The second is the marketing and social demographic status of middle class. This is relevant because, as the largest group of consumers in that middle 50%, companies want to understand their lifestyles and how to sell them things. This is where you get things like “feelings” involved. And this is where it gets murky, because someone who is quite poor can have those middle class feelings, as can someone quite rich.
All of us can fall for the middle class marketing of a Disney vacation being so important to our family memories. The poor person may never get to go. The middle class person may have to choose to take a loan, forego other things, or not save as much for retirement, to make Disney happen. Or spend years saving. The upper class person may also have to save money and grumble over the costs, but that grumbling is happening after retirement is fully funded and the car payments are made and the mortgage is paid.
Because, and correct me if I’m wrong, it seems like pew research is defining middle class based on median income.
When Americans speak of middle class we are speaking of a lifestyle that is not longer affordable to the bulk in that median income range.
Sort of like how there wasn’t a middle class in the early 20th century, because the median income didn’t afford that lifestyle prior to labor rights movements
I believe it’s the middle 3 deciles of household income 40-60th percentiles which is about $50—$80K.
Again, it’s a distorted view of what the middle class is. Many people in the 61st–98th percentiles of household income, through various choices of lifestyle creep, feel they cannot afford what they are entitled to when it’s all rolled in.
They live paycheck to paycheck living in a good zip code for a good public school, save for retirement, save for colleges while paying off their own student loans, kids activities, have two car payments on decent cars.
No. Sadly, a middle class existence is full of debt and one with little frills. Those who are truly poor have it really rough.
The baseline for what is defined as “basic” is so high nowadays.
High earners tend to be high spenders. Exceptions exist but the low savings rate and revolving credit data say otherwise.
It’s based on data from 2018 and doesn’t reflect the craziness of COVID’s effects on the economy/salaries/COL.
So I ran the calculator on me, and as I suspected, I am classified as upper class based on my income. I understand academia’s desire to force things into objectively easy to measure things, especially things you can get data on without substantial efforts. I think you aught to flip the question and ask why is lifestyle standard not an acceptable measure of class existence? Using dollars alone does absolutely nothing to explain what consumes those dollars, or degradation in quality of what those dollars purchase. Let’s not even talk about the delusional and changing “basket of goods” and CPI that the Government uses to track inflation and cost of living.
As a more anecdotal example of why people do what you’re suggesting, I present the following: I (34M) make more then both my parents did combined before they retired, yet I have a smaller house, a cheaper car, have mostly used furniture, and live in a way more dangerous neighborhood. By my age they had already gone through multiple new cars, bought a 40% larger home, could afford me, had company funded pensions, had well constructed high quality furniture, and generally wanted for nothing.
What I’m trying to illustrate here is that I can’t live the lifestyle of my parents and have the quality of goods they had while making better money at the same age. Everything they had felt better then what I have at the same age. That lifestyle is my relative benchmark for what constituted middle class. Using dollars to relate to my current peers feels disingenuous and allows for lifestyle suppression while claiming everything is going just fine as long as we’re all equally suppressed. I reject that notion and assert that the more worthwhile measure is that of the previous generations’ lifestyles.
How dare you challenge my feelings with data/facts
I really love this tool for thinking about my income: https://www.oecd.org/wise/compare-your-income.htm
The site says that hhi over $145,000 makes you upper class. Personally, not sure why people on this sub are gate keeping people in the higher end of middle class, but there are other subs more friendly to upwardly mobile middle class families. You can take a look here and make your own judgement on OP’s post: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/
Thank you for typing all of these words for me to read.
A lot of things come into play to distort numbers.
I am middle class but I put the max in 401k Roth and toss 2k a month in a 529. Sorry you are upper class.
To me the 401k is the jerk. I didn’t make good money till the last 5 years or so and am gen x. I may make x but lose 25% trying to catch up for retirement in 10 to 15 years.
I have begun to view 401k as a tax that previous generations didn’t have to pay. Man I miss pensions.
You’re in academia. As you know, people do not act rationally. And as you know, people in Reddit threads definitely do not act rationally.
That’s pretty much it.
Because it’s using 2018 data and doesn’t factor in COVID/current levels of inflation.
It’s hard to reconcile “middle class” with “can’t pay the bills.” I’m middle class at $32k per year and livable wage in my area is closer to $36k.
If you are one health incident away from losing everything, you are not in the upper class.
Someone’s definition of middle class doesn’t matter to me.
Can I afford the basics? Food, water, a reasonable path to home ownership, reliable transportation and healthcare?
If not. Then I don’t care if I’m literally right in the median. Who cares to be middle class if the median can’t afford shit?
Because people desire to be above middle class while still thinking they are middle class.
Because when most people think middle class they are thinking about a certain lifestyle, not a literal range on the income bell curve. What’s typically associated with a middle class lifestyle – home ownership, vacations, saving for retirement and children’s education, etc. – is really more the realm of the top third or quartile now, especially if you either live in a high cost metro area and/or don’t have financial help from family.
Also their calculator is using five year old data at this point. Cumulative inflation since 2018 is 21%.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/
Pew’s definition isn’t for class. It’s for income. But being middle income isn’t necessarily being middle class for a number of reasons that have been noted many times, in this sub and elsewhere. As an academic, you should know that.
You know, if people in this sub spent more time learning from the success stories instead of worrying about whether the people sharing the success stories can still be counted as middle class, then they might find themselves moving up too.
Just saying.
Is there a calculator that let’s you add your location to calculate household income for a “middle class” family?
The problem with PRC’s middle class calculation is that it’s NOT “middle class”, it’s “middle income”. It’s based on the median income of a population, not buying power, or any other metric. Basically, if most of the country is poor, some people will be less poor than others. Somewhere, there is going to be a “middle class” but the difference between “lower” and “middle” is small. While the difference between “middle” and “upper” is large.
I totally agree with you. As someone who will be accepting a job that will put my family in the upper class for my area, I think it’s very important to recognize that I’m now in the position to help people in my community instead of trying to edge up my own lifestyle.
This sub is not valuable to people who meet the statistical definition of middle class if people from other classes are posting their issues. I think it would be worth it to create a new sub that does gatekeep, to preserve the intention.
*pew*pew*pew* [!!!]
Because it only incorporates income without considering debts as well. For example, someone with 150k income and 150k in student loans in a hcol area.
Also some discourse here is over income vs lifestyle vs col vs net worth.
Went from impoverished to middle class poor, hell yeah.
I’m just ’upper class’ but I think the thing is the comparison scale. The majority below me are all within a couple of hundred k of income; the minority above me could be earning twice what I do but a substantial number of them are also earning millions and tens of millions of dollars. On a histogram you don’t see the big spike to your left because you focus on the far distant tail stretching out to your right.
From what I’ve seen, there are two *different* definitions of middle class.
1. Quantitative (like Pew’s). – Middle is 25% to 75% of income distribution.
2. Qualitative
1. Poor – Unstable income, or not enough. Doesn’t know what they’ll eat next month (sometimes next day)
2. Stable income, but still needs to work.
3. Income mostly from ‘economic rents’, doesn’t *need* to work any more.
A ton of people (from ~75% to maybe 90 or 95%) are upper by the first definition, but middle by the second. The second one is also the one used in fiction books and movies. HBO didn’t make ‘the 76 percentile age’.
The reason people say that they are middle class (regardless of income/wealth) is because it is the “best” thing to say to others. Saying, “hey, I’m middle class” is like saying “hey, I’m *just* like you.” It makes you feel relatable to others, which is a natural thing for humans to want to feel. That’s the real reason why everyone says they’re middle class. Like many things in life, people say things based on how they feel, not based on facts. That’s just part of the human condition.
Sure – I can give you my 2 cents. $250k family income with a family of 5. I think one factor other than income is how many are working. My wife and I both work and we both make half the total. I think this can put a lot of stress on a family compared to having one parent making $250k. One parent could be home to take care of kids/take care of the home etc. Daycare is about 45% of my mortgage and that’s only with one kid. Fortunately we have my in-laws living with us helping, but we are both working with 2 kids at home and 1 in daycare. We can afford things and we are doing fine, but I just don’t consider us to be upper income like this calculator says. It’s busy and chaotic and expensive and we have to be fairly disciplined to meet modest goals, but it is definitely doable and manageable. I could see us being upper-middle but not upper.
Is there a link to this? I would like to check it out!