- November 10, 2023
- Posted by: legaleseblogger
- Category: Related News
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****** just grabbed a
So it looks like your future MIL has everything figured out for you and your fiance. Too bad she didn’t bother to ask you and your partner what you would like?
There are 5 things that come through loud and clear in your post:
1. The funds for the downpayment on your condo came with huge conditions. You are only now starting to see what those are,
2. Your MIL has made it clear that she wants you and her son living with her,
3. Your partner has made it clear that he will not say no to his parents. His parents come first,
4. Co-signing a mortgage means the co-signors name will go on title. That creates ownership and with both kids already owning properties, it has tax implications,
5. and most importantly, you do not want to live with your in-laws.
While some may view the downpayment and even the current offer of joint ownership of the family home as a generous gift, others will view it as financial blackmail. The right thing for you in this situation is to stay true to what you want – you don’t want to live with your inlaws and if push comes to shove, you may find that yourself walking away from this relationship.
As others have wrote, this is a relationship issue, not a financial one.
All valid concerns and potentially deal breakers for your future marriage unfortunately.
I don’t see any options you like here. Best bet would be to pay them back the money they gave your fiance and tell them to use to lower the mortgage value but I doubt that would be seen as sufficient in the family’s eyes.
You’re basically fucked here
Like I said in another post.
The most important financial decision in your life is who you marry.
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BC just came out with removal of residential zoning (implicitly) so maybe you should look into that first.
Don’t rush deciding on anything and don’t rush to think negatively. More and more families rebuild their childhood homes into Duplex with Basements.
You haven’t shared what your living arrangement will be after the house is rebuild: who gets what? Basement, Laneway, Main house?
I have seen multi gen families where parents live in basement unit completely separate from the child family and they do well since there’s a clear boundary and helped with grandchildren care as well.
You still have your condo to move back so you can rent out your share of the new house if the living arrangement didn’t work out.
Do not rush and also keep in mind that PFC demographics will never be in the same page with Metro Vancouver demographics so majority of advises in this sub often clash with Metro Vancouver culture/background that is heavily influenced by immigrants. For example: your in-law wealth + ability to give their kids 300-400k PER kids as DP while owning a $2M house (BC assessment is meaningless btw, do your research on same house age + location recent transactions) is way above PFC typical norm of Index ETF.
Last but not least, you can always suggest them rebuild as duplex with basement where both kids can move in and parents can live in one of the kids condos. This way, both kids have basements to rent out + 1 extra condo to rent out while 1 other condo is occupied by PIL.
Do not rush, do not ignore the fact that LAND is gold in BC. Once you sell that LAND, you lose value faster in whatever your exchange output is.
It is the impression that it will be a unilateral decision, not a shared decision between partners that is the issue. I doubt OP is uncomfortable with the financial aspects and what is good/not good for them. I think OP is deflecting the discomfort of it not being an “Us decision” to finances. OP is getting a glimpse of what future big decisions will be like and they need to decide if this is the norm that they want for their relationship.
OP this is a relationship question, not a financial question and you are doing yourself a disservice if you keep thinking it is a financial issue.
And whatÔÇÖs not mentioned: where they going to live when you demolish a house and build a new one? It will take more than a year to build, it will cost to have temporary accommodations.
You accepted a $400k down payment on your current condo from them? Now the rooster coming home to roost EDIT: and claim to have your own financial plan. Lol. Return the down payment
His parents should just get their own place with the equity from their current house. Taking on a too large mortgage at retirement age is idiotic. This new build will probably also go over budget, as they always do, then what?
Also, does this mean that you have to live in the home that has fallen into disrepair? ThatÔÇÖs another huge and expensive project you should probably not take on without a ton of cashflow. ItÔÇÖs concerning that they let the house go, it might not sell for as much as they think it will.
If your fiance is determined to take care of them physically in their old age, then that is something you need to resolve ASAP. Better to know now whether your vision of your future life together is compatible or not, than get divorced later, potentially with kids involved.
Co signing a mortgage means “I sign that I am of sane mind and know that I am on the hook for the whole mortgage amount without owning any of the house I am on the hook for”.
Building a bigger house with a mortgage at that stage of parents life? Are they for real?
Absolutely not!
I think your life is being laid out that your future husband and you will be living with your in-laws so that “he” can take care of them in their old age. The question is will “he” be doing it or will you be the maid to them all, and what about once you have kids? As you said they could sell and downsize but that means they can’t include you living with them so it seems the arrangement (that is a bad idea) is meant to keep the kids in servitude to the parents, and I would worry that you’re the one that will actually be in servitude.
If your life with him was planned out to be something else, you should really think hard about how those plans will likely not be acted on ***before*** you walk down the aisle. At least you found out in advance that you have a mommy’s boy.
Does your fianc├® come from a culture where it is customary for the children to live with their parents post-marriage?
Looks like you already made up your mind about this.
Also, if the two children are co-signing the mortgage, why arenÔÇÖt they just made co-owners one the property as well?
Not a finance person hereÔÇö
But a real estate person.
Just a few ideas to to think over, if you have not already thought about it.
What about a renovation on their current house? They do have more than enough equity in it for a reverse mortgage (for seniors 55+) talk to a mortgage broker, which IÔÇÖm sure you have already.
If they are looking to downsize, why not convert the single family into multiple units. (2-4 I believe is allowed in BC, correct me if IÔÇÖm wrong. )That way they get a new apartment in the house and neighbourhood they already love.
Talk to a few contractors and get price quotes for this. Getting a quote is free and you would actually know what it costs to get this project done. Please make sure you get more than one quote. IÔÇÖve made the mistake of being lazy when getting contractors and paid handsomely for my mistake.
Downsizing should cost them less money right? Not more. So IÔÇÖm not sure why youÔÇÖll have to take out another mortgage. But I donÔÇÖt know your numbers, so..
All the best and hope at least some of this might spark some ideas for you and your family.
Asking a hard question: Why are you still with your fianc├® if your financial values donÔÇÖt align?
Sounds like cultural shock. All the things you mentioned seems standard practice for a lot of Asian cultures. There’s an expectation you need to take care of the elders when they age, regardless of their financial situation. The parents also support you a lot more during your upbringing (typically paying for your schooling, first house down payment, etc). If you weren’t down with that then you might have issues with that relationship long term.
This is legit relationship ending. Not because anyone is bad or wrong, but because you don’t match.
It’s not going to get better and all your fears will come true ….. so you have to make some hard decisions.
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You are always going to be “second place” in the marriage, no matter how you slice it, this guy is already “married” to his family in a sorta toxic way. And what makes it even worse is that he is not standing up to them and saying hey I have my own life to live and I found someone I want to share it with.
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He isn’t going to care enough to say no to them on all financial fronts because let’s face it partners are a dime a dozen and he has a hell of a lot more gain$ in the future.
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Sometimes being selfish is a smart move !
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People often think that it’s great when parents, do things like help with downpayments and such but there are always strings involved. There is debt in every favour
I thought I could live with my in-laws, but I canÔÇÖt. I also have never taken a significant amount of money from them either. If they gave my family 400k for a home, I think I would play a little nicer.
You have some hard conversations ahead of you with your fiance. You have a complex mix of financial and relationship questions.
Personally I share your negative reaction to having my name on anything mortgage related for a family member. And there is not a chance in hell I would allow any kind of financial obligations with some specific family members.That said, I think you are downplaying the significance of how much the down payment they gave your fiance is shaping your own financial plans. Would you be more open to living with them if you still owed $300-400K more on your current place? (e.g. if you were in need rather than the other way around) There are financial answers/options to extricate yourself from this but I agree with the other comments that from what you have said, this is not going to go over well with your in-laws.
How old are you? Will your feelings change in the future? Personally I could not live with either of our parents unless it was the absolute last resort. I am pretty sure it would destroy my marriage – largely due to the toll on my mental health and how much I would resent it to a point where it would be a problem. Are you planning to have children, and if yes how do you picture the future relationship with his parents and your children?
Are you willing to end your relationship over this? Is he?
This is such a waste of money, they could sell their current house and buy a smaller one, and still come out ahead. Instead they want to put to build a new house, pay to demolish the old one, all so that you can live with them, which nobody is asking for.
Personally I would make it very clear to your fianc├® that YOU WILL NOT BE MOVING INTO HIS PARENTS HOUSE. If wants to buy his parents a retirement home and go live with them, heÔÇÖll be doing it alone.
Who retires into a bigger house anyways? Presumably itÔÇÖs just he two of them, they should be looking to downsize if theyÔÇÖre gonna move, into something without a lot of stairs. Building a giant house to move your adult children into (who already owns homes) is one of the dumbest ideas IÔÇÖve seen here in a while.
The $ is all mix already the moment you guys accepts the 300k down payment gift.
unless you feel like repaying them back 300k. Most likely the your fiance is going to sign it.
If you want to sign an agreement saying you have no part of this. I can most likely see that the parents will also get you to sign an agreement that you have no part of the 300k gift.
Another option I see is to also contract in an agreement should things go south, what decision would be made for everyone to exit the contract. Is it to sell the place, who will be responsible for the payment and such.
It is not that easy to cosign on a mortgage. Each person will have to be able to qualify for the whole mortgage.
Your position is quite clear, but what is missing is what your fiance thinks of all this. There are actually 2 seperate issues here:
(1) he already owns an apartment where you both live. Does he wish to remain there, and for how long? Would he ever want to move back onto his parents property? Will your family outgrow the apartment if/when you have kids, and what would you do at that time?
If your fiance is on the same page as you about never moving back onto his parents property, he should let them know so that they don’t waste their time and money building a son-in-law suite.
(1a) would he ever want to be a landlord? Being a landlord in BC is sooo much more complex than just “collecting income on the side”. There are tenant-friendly laws that cap the rent, there are risks of bad tenants, there are taxes on vacant properties, and there is income tax in the rental income. It is not necessarily lucrative, and it may not even be enough income to generate positive cash flow. If/when he decides to move, he should strongly consider selling.
(2) is signing the mortgage. This could be a cultural thing and yes there are risks but as you are not married (and even if you are) this might be something that (a) you don’t have enough info about, (b) they already gave him 300k, (c) might never happen, (d) it’s not really your place to get involved. Presumably his parents have money and are smart enough to talk to an estate lawyer about Wills, risks, etc..
I’d forget about question (2) for now and steer the discussions around what will really matter which is question (1).
OP…if this is a culture thing with the Mom wanting her son nearby and being “clingy”, then surely you know you’re not going to win this battle?
Sounds like you’ve benefited from your MIL’s generosity towards her son. Good think you’re not married yet, and have time to think and decide if you want to continue with the relationship
OP, after you updated your answer, I felt compelled to updated mine.
You should tell your fiancee to get ready to return the money to your PIL so that they can figure out their plan next with only SIL left in picture.
How much was that? 300-400k? Return it to your PIL in batches, consider it as no-interest loan.
This is the TRUE test of your and your fiancee’s word/plan.
There’s no skirting around this. You will find out if your fiancee means his word or he’s just merely patting you in the back. Likewise for yourself: this is a test if you can truly live in a less ideal situation financially.
Change your “Financial Plan” from now on to account returning money to PIL.
If any party flinch, you get your answer for your future life: it’ll be tug-and-pull between what you want and your Fiancee will be pulled into 2 directions: you and his PIL.
Don’t be surprised if you’re roped into the marriage and your Fiancee will attempt to persuade you to reconsider as long as you guys are not returning the money. I’ve seen this before.
PS: Typically PIL would prefer to live with their daughter, not their son.
valid concerns, whenever you are asked to co-sign anything it’s a huge decision and usually is a bad idea no matter how good the intentions are…
it’s not really selfish, it’s a mutual decision that should be made by both of you and you should discuss that with your fiance, it’s not fair to you otherwise neither.
If it was me, I would not co-sign it, there is just too much that could go wrong. And like you said, there are better alternatives (especially when it’s valued at 2M). Thank them for their generousity and politely decline. You should not be forced to put yourself into a situation that you are not comfortable with.
Tell your MIL sheÔÇÖs literally delusional, have a small headache temporarily, save a big migraine your whole life
I would be scared… don’t marry someone who would unilaterally sign onto a new debt without your consent. Get a prenuptial agreement if you do proceed.. After you are married it would be difficult to convince a court you didn’t agree to this and ultimately it would put you on the hook as well for part of that mortgage should you folks decide to split in the future. Money is usually messy especially across multiple families. Being in a joint debt with your partners sister is a valid concern.
You haven’t given any useful information to determine whether it could be sound financially so this is not a finance question but a relationship problem.
Financial concerns would be who’s paying for it? Would taking out a HELOC be possible? Can the kids take on the debt in their names (i.e. do they need the borrowing power in the future which this debt would significantly disadvantage them?)
Aside from you not wanting to live with them, what’s wrong with the plan?
Break up with your fianc├®
Sounds like my ex husbands Italian family. Run! Lots of financial gifts even out, but everything came with a string attached.
Also, a manÔÇÖs relationship with his mother, massive deal. My first husband hated his with a disgusting passion.
Ideally he likes/loves his mom and is kind and loving , helps her out (but not this much). He should set and hold natural boundaries and be able to say no to his mother.
Men that hate their moms, red flag.
Men that still hang on their moms aprons strings, red flag.
Just imagine you have children, they will be raised to obey grandma, she may complain. About how you parent etc, husband will be placed in the middle and never back you up.
Get out now before it becomes more complicated and hard to do so.
Absolutely not. You don’t even have to get into the finances. This isn’t the 5th century. You are not obligated to live with anyone you don’t want to live with. I wouldn’t even let that conversation go further than the first time it was mentioned. “I am not living with your parents.” No explanation needed.
And this is why you don’t accept large gifts like half a million dollars from anyone. If you were with your fiance when the downpayment was offered, you kind of set yourself up to be manipulated to death. If you were not with him when he got the condo or weren’t involved at all in said “gift”, his parents being generous to him has NOTHING to do with you or your marriage and should not impact your life decisions in any way.
ItÔÇÖs always so interesting to read perspectives like this as a person who belongs to a minority ethnic group.
His parents helped their children to significantly get ahead in life which ultimately also benefits you. His parents are aging and probably at some point would want to live with their children, again who they significantly took care of, and youÔÇÖre worried about that. I will never understand why this is such an issue. Especially if you have money where the parents can potentially stay in a guest house.
I hear you about the mortgage but If his parents are financially good for it, then he should get some things in writing to take care of the liabilities on their part. You should also discuss it with him to get clarity on how it works. When you marry, you would ultimately become liable too if something happens to him so make sure he understands that and explains things clearly.
You need to put your foot down and be ready to make tough decisions.
It seems like you had no problem accepting a sum of cash for a downpayment, but now that your fiance wants to live in a multi-generational household you’re having concerns.
Do yourself and partner a favour and walk away. If you stay, you’re just going to be bitter and be the negative energy in the household. Find someone that fits the life you want and your fiance will find someone that is more family oriented.
Pre-nup
Parents have a house/property worth $2m.
Why do they need a co-sign? Why not just a HELOC?
I am white and I don’t understand the avoidance of moving in with parents. I guess I just have a very different relationship with in-laws and my parents. From a finance perspective there seems to be allot of money in the pot so I would not be worried about the finances. Seems like allot of wealthy people. I think it’s more of a lifestyle question the fact that you accepted 400k from them means you are already in bed with them financially now you need to decide if living with them is bad enough that you are willing to leave the relationship. Which to me does not make sense. IMO set some ground rules and personal spaces and leave I’d those are crossed and can’t be resolved. If everything works out financially its way better to move back and rent out will set you up to retire early.