AI Legalese Decoder: A Valuable Tool for Navigating the Legal Challenges of Lamppost Removal on Owned Land
- November 25, 2023
- Posted by: legaleseblogger
- Category: Related News
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ANSWER: Seeking Solutions for Lowering the Cost of Council Charge for Moving a Lamppost
Huge Appreciation for Valuable Advice and Solutions Offered for Our Dilemma
The amusingly sneaky comments about the “accidental destruction” of the lamppost added some levity to our situation. We sincerely thank everyone who has provided valuable advice and potential resolutions for our current predicament.
We have thoroughly evaluated the situation and have come to the decision to proceed with the cost that the council has stated, as it appears to be a justifiable amount for the necessary work that needs to be undertaken. Moreover, it seems to be our best and most viable option if we are intent on installing a driveway.
We deeply value the information provided by everyone, elucidating the reasons behind the estimate that has been proposed.
Once again, we express our gratitude for all of the advice and insights.
Exploring the Potential Cost-Reduction Strategies with the AI Legalese Decoder
We find ourselves in a position where we are in need of advice on the potential ways to minimize the expenses associated with the council’s charge for the relocation of a lamppost.
We recently acquired the land situated in front of our residence, only to discover that it has a lamppost positioned right in the middle of it. Subsequently, we endeavored to relocate the lamppost, and the council has delineated a new site approximately 3 meters away, with the intention of removing any obstruction.
However, the quotation we received indicates that the cost for this endeavor amounts to a substantial £6,000, which we find to be exorbitant.
We are contemplating the possibility of persuading the council to return the lamppost to its original location across the road. As it turns out, the lamppost stood on the opposite side of the road until approximately five years ago, when it was arbitrarily shifted to our front garden. We are considering proposing the relocation of the lamppost back to its original position across the road, taking into account that the cables necessary for its operation are already in place there. We are speculating that this proposal might result in reduced costs.
Furthermore, in light of the fact that we are now the owners of the land upon which the lamppost is situated, we are also interested in exploring any available options associated with this ownership.
In addition to our plan to engage with the council on this matter, we are eager to gain insight and suggestions from others who may have encountered similar circumstances.
The AI Legalese Decoder can offer invaluable assistance in examining and interpreting the legalities and regulations pertaining to the ownership of land and the potential avenues for disputing or minimizing the council charge associated with the relocation of the lamppost. By leveraging the capabilities of the AI Legalese Decoder, we can significantly enhance our understanding of the legal framework and our prospects for advancing a successful argument or proposition.
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Original content:
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Rewritten content:
AI Legalese Decoder: Simplifying Legal Jargon for Everyone
AI Legalese Decoder is a groundbreaking software utilizing artificial intelligence to effectively simplify and translate intricate legal language into easy-to-understand terms. In today’s fast-paced and highly litigious society, individuals often find themselves grappling with legal documents and contracts that are filled with dense and convoluted terminology. This can be particularly challenging for those who do not have a legal background or are unfamiliar with the intricacies of the law.
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“The question is, the lamppost was originally on the opposite side of the road about 5 years ago when one day they decided to relocate it to our front garden.”
No, they decided to move it into a space that they owned, which was not your garden until you just purchased it.
The lamp post was there when you bought the land, so you bought in full knowledge.
Can’t see there is any way for you to have it moved except at your own expense.
You can discuss options for the new location with the Council, but it will be their decision in the end.
YouÔÇÖve purchased land with this in situ. IÔÇÖm assuming you were aware and that you agreed the purchase on the basis of that. That being the case you have no remedy.
It would entirely depend on what you agreed on this in the sale.
YouÔÇÖre going to have to bite the bullet on this..
Depends what they set up when they sold the land, possibly a wayleave or easement or nothing. If itÔÇÖs a wayleave the land owner can terminate it. If it has an easement it is a bit harder as they would have to give up their rights to be there. If itÔÇÖs nothing you can demand they move it the same as once a wayleave has been terminated in writing. It should have appeared on your searches when buying the land if they have any rights.
Easement you will have to pay. As youÔÇÖre asking them to do work they donÔÇÖt have to. They have rights to be there on the land. Make sure you also get the easement removed from your land as part of this or they could theoretically put it back.
Wayleave youÔÇÖre allowing them to be there and you can terminate that allowance. You should also get paid for this service if it stays. Once terminated in writing they will have to move the equipment. Same goes if they have no rights.
Not much experience with lamp posts but thatÔÇÖs how it works for electricity poles.
Cost wise isnÔÇÖt ridiculous depending on extent of work, digging is dear, and so are service connections and mains extensions
If the cost of moving the lamppost was an issue, this is something you should have discussed prior to the purchase.
However, £6000 for a relocation is a fair price. They are not just digging it up and planting it like a tree.
I would also say that the advantage of having additional council funded street furniture is a bonus, in preventing crime. Especially fly tipping. If you can live with it, the practicality will be worth it.
It’s probably got a direct connection to the DNO network. So this will need disconnecting (┬ú600ish). Then you’re going to have to trench from where the cables are, run duct and joint a new cable on. Plus costs of installing the column. UKPN (DNO where I am) would probably ask for slightly less then ┬ú6k but you’ll have the council’s contractors uplift and labour as well as the councils uplift for managing the process, updating databases and running any lighting calcs to prove the new location gives a safe level of light to the area.
OP are you seriously saying that the council moved the lamppost into your garden years ago or that its now in your garden because you’ve bought the land it sits in. If the latter then the price of moving it should have been discussed before you bought the additional land as you now don’t really have anything left to bargain with.
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Definitely ask if it can go over the road; people in streetlighting can have short memories (source: used to run a local authority streetlighting contract).
However, it may not be as simple as moving it back over the road, despite the fact a supply could potentially be found there. Usually, lights are relocated when a full street is redesigned, so the locations are dictated by achieving the necessary light levels on the road. Sometimes you can’t even move a streetlight a metre in the direction you want without causing issues with light levels, maintenance access or spill onto neighbouring properties.
Having priced these things myself, 6k is on the higher end of normal, but it may be that it has a mains connection (very expensive to relocate further than 2m, and even more if the main needs extending), or access is tricky, requiring night work or traffic management. Also they’ll probably have to replace the column because you just can’t guarantee the wear and tear it’ll take when moving it, or the condition of it under the ground.
I work in streetlighting albeit out on site but i have some knowledge in how the office will deal with moving a column.
>What is the likelihood of the council agreeing to put it back in its original position over the road and because of location of cables already being there originally, possibly make this cheaper?
The cable is there yes but, there will be no power running through it. It would have been disconnected from the main when the column was moved across the road OR the cable would have been rerouted across the road depending on where the HV main is running in your road.
>Alternatively is there anything we can do now that we own the land that the lamppost in sitting on?
You bought the land knowing full well the column was there so there will be no rush or H&S concern for them to move it.
┬ú6k is on the lower end of the charges to be fair though, it’s not as simple as just picking it up and moving it. You have to factor in the cost of a surveyor attending site to ensure lighting levels are still reached after it being moved, somebody to come out and scan the ground to locate and mark out underground services, a digging crew (to excavate the existing column, dig a new hole and trench between the two for cable laying), a HIAB lorry to pull out the old column and move it across and then a jointing crew to disconnect, joint and reconnect the live DNO (your local DNO will also charge the council separately for this which they’ll pass onto you). And then a crew to come along and put everything back together and make it look half tidy w/ top soil/tarmac, seed etc. All that and then the cost of admin and paperwork on top.
I would ask the council if they are charging for a new lamp post & lantern though or if they’re just going to reuse the existing as that can affect the price quite dramatically. Good luck!
One thing I’ve not seen mentioned so far is the concept of ‘Highway Rights’.
Is there a public footpath or road in any part of the land that you have just purchased? I’m guessing it’s possible because that’s generally where street lights are.
You can request a copy of the highway boundary from your council. If the boundary extends into your owned property then the council have priority on that part of the land, even if you own it. It could mean that they are offering to move the lamppost voluntarily and don’t even have to move it at all.
Furthermore, if the highway boundary extends into your land this affects other things you may wish to do with that land and you will need permission.
This is a lot more common than people think. Very frequently people’s land registry docs show they own land up to the centre point of the road, but ask me what happens if you try and put a fence right there on ‘your’ land 😀
The council are not only charging you for the removal but also to install the new one/move the original to its new location, so 6k is a pretty reasonable amount to pay for this.
You should have negotiated it in as a condition of purchase that the streetlight be moved prior to completion. This may have saved you the 6k.
I don’t know of any legal manoeuvres that would give you any advantage in this situation.
NAL but father is an electrician. Lamp posts are very expensive to install, it is multiple days labour as you have to dig the new hole, pour concrete, let it cure, safely turn off and disconnect the old post, rip out the old footing, rewire, which involves running more conduit underground by horizontal bore or digging a trench, erect the new lamppost and wire it in. 6k is a bargain.
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Who did you buy the land from?
I worked on a project with wooden poles for not sure, could be street lights but could also have been telephones, possibly power anyway the client charged the owner rent (sorry its a long time ago, could be council, BT, power company) and within a year they moved it to council land. So I reckon ask for rent.
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Working with DNO’s like UK Power Networks day to day 6k sounds pretty reasonable.
So the council own a lamppost that is on your land?
Time to knock up a rental agreement for them, with hideous charges… unless they were to move it of course….
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Is there not a wayleave agreement in place for the street light, the same way that other electrical installations have?
Highway rights supercede ownership rights. It might be in your deed, bit if it’s highway you’ve not a leg to stand on short of applying to stop up the highway. I would suggest getting a highway extent seeing as it seems your conveyancing lawyer failed to do this as part of the searches when you bought.
Check your deeds, if the council has no easement for the power cables or lamp, you can have them removed and send them the bill
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Not really sure you have a leg to stand on to be fair.
They didn’t relocate it to your front garden, they relocated it to land they owned, you’ve only just purchased it knowing the lamppost was there.
If the lamppost wasn’t there, the land you’ve just purchased would’ve held more of a premium in value anyway.
One of our work vans backed in to a lamp post and wrecked it. Long story short they charged is 3k to replace it and that was about 5 years ago. So it sounds like the price is about right, even if it is a lot.
Have you applied for planning for change of use to build a drive way and does this include provision of a drop curb as youÔÇÖll need to pay for this as well?
Before getting the post moved make sure you can have a driveway as this isnÔÇÖt an automatic right and councils arenÔÇÖt falling over themselves to grant parking over previous green spaces.