- November 10, 2023
- Posted by: legaleseblogger
- Category: Related News
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****** just grabbed a
The definition from sections 4 and 5 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, which create the offences of driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs and (the more commonly used) driving whilst over the prescribed limit of alcohol in the breath, blood, or urine, refers to a person driving or attempting to drive in a ÔÇ£road or other public placeÔÇØ.
The generally accepted definition of a ÔÇ£public placeÔÇØ is ÔÇ£a place to which members of the public have access, whether generally or upon payment of a feeÔÇØ. Additionally, section 192 of the RTA states that ÔÇ£roadÔÇØ includes any highway and any other road to which the public has access. I have no difficulty in concluding that a pub car park falls within ÔÇ£a road or other public placeÔÇØ.
It follows that had you blown over the limit the police would have been entitled to arrest you, and subject to the outcome of any evidential tests at the station, charge you with drink-driving.
(Contrast this with some American jurisdictions where the police have to wait until someone gets out of the parking lot before pulling them over.)
Private is defined by use not by who owns it.
ÔÇÿPrivate landÔÇÖ with public access such as the pub car park you mention is generally a public space where the traffic laws apply.
So, yes, you could be prosecuted just as if you were on a road.
A road is considered ‘any way, other than a water way, that the public have right of access, whether through toll or otherwise’.
The pub car park is open to customers and staff, so it’s allowed.
TL;DR: Yes they could arrest and prosecute for In Charge while unfit through drink or drugs, but CPS have to convince a judge that you met the test for being “In Charge”.
To answer your question, the fact the car park is privately owned is immaterial because it still meets the definition of a public place, which is what the Road Traffic Act encompasses.
A public place is defined as a place to which the public has access, including privately owned car parks.
Police may request a roadside specimen if they believe or suspect you have driven a motor vehicle, or are in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or in a public place, and have reason to suspect you may be impaired by drink or drugs.
In charge of is tested case-by-case by a Court, but as a bare minimum usually means you have keys to the ignition, and are in or very nearby the vehicle (Courts also consider what activity you are doing at the time).
So the circumstances as given suggest the police could have pursued a case for being in charge of a motor vehicle. It is a less serious offense than “driving” or “attempting to drive”, and whether or not you were in charge would be a point to prove by the prosecution at Court.
But it is a testy area of Law given that some motor vehicles are also designed with living accommodation (ie motor caravans).
You don’t even need to be on a road, you could be done not even in the car, if you were walking towards it with keys and if they believe you intended to drive.
If you put the keys in the ignition while drunk you can be done, either for drunk driving or drunk in charge. Doesn’t matter where you are, drunk behind the wheel is just that.
YouÔÇÖve misunderstood. The laws of the road apply anywhere accessible by the public. Whether itÔÇÖs owned privately or is a normal road is irrelevant. Hence itÔÇÖs illegal to drive 90mph down the middle of a Tesco car park, if you crash into someone in a car park itÔÇÖs an incident for insurance, etc.
It would be legal to drink drive on your own private land if it was not accessible by the general public, for example if you had your own field.
The car park for a public house is a public place. You can be prosecuted for drunk driving in a pub car park.
It would be more of a challenge to prosecute you driving around the carpark of a closed ASDA that has big signs up saying ÔÇ£No Entry after xxxxÔÇØ or something like that
I believe you would have I recently almost fell foul of this (in my opinion abused law) I and a friend recently put some item in our cars at a venue at the end of a party for safe keeping (we had hotel rooms at said venue)
Neither of us had any intention to drive and we knew we wouldnt be fit to do so however being aware of this law I certainly wasnt in a fit state to make the judgement that this wasnt a legal or wise thing to do..
Were you behind the wheel of the vehicle and was the engine on. If the answer is yes then you dont have a leg to stand on .
Without looking at other comments and without being a legal expert, I can quite safely say that if you even sit in-front of a wheel of a car, with the keys in the ignition, even if off and youÔÇÖre over the limit you will be convicted safely, regardless of public land or not. (Your own drive say)
What justification was given for the test?
It looks like you’re asking a question about a parking or speeding fine!
You may benefit by posting on the relevant [FreeTraficLegalAdvice forum](https://www.ftla.uk/index.php) or reading [Parking Cowboys](https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/), which specialise in these matters, in addition to LegalAdviceUK.
*We aren’t affiliated with the above and they should only be used as informal guidance in advance of speaking to a legal professional.*
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A pub car park is a public place.
Yes. Private land but with public access. It can easily be inferred that youÔÇÖd be going on the road and simplyÔÇÖdrunk in chargeÔÇÖ applies no matter what..
Yeah you’ve misunderstood the law. You were in a public place and you don’t actually have to be driving. i.e if you were, say, parked at the side of the road and instead of driving home you decided to ‘sleep it off’ in the back seat then you’re breaking the law.
Dad got done drunk in charge in the back of his people carrier sleeping after a night in the pub – he never intended to drive but cops were called as he was seen by a disgruntled neighbour and he got nicked and banned -_-
But I’ve been at places before where cops have been called been unfit due drink/drugs and been told (when I asked – they didn’t make me as that wouldn’t be due care and attention to the safety of me on their part) that I could move my car as it was a private track as the gate at the bottom was locked so the public couldn’t access it, but if the gate had been open it would’ve been a different matter as that track would then be accessible by the public
NAL
This would depend on if the pub was within its open hours or not.
In the case Sandy v Martin [1974], it was found that the car park attached to a pub is intact public space, but only do the pub is open.
If the pub is outwith itÔÇÖs opening times, then the car park isnÔÇÖt classed as public land